Revive Your Pinterest Plan for Long-Term Growth with Erica Muddiman

Made Remarkable Intro: Welcome back. And thanks for tuning into the Made Remarkable podcast, hosted by Kellee Wynne. Joining us is Erica Muddiman.

A Pinterest strategist who holds a passion for working with clients to expand their reach and increase their revenue through Pinterest. Tune in and learn how you can leverage Pinterest's potential as a platform for driving customer engagement and growth in your business. Check out the show notes and transcripts for more information about Erica. Exclusive promotional offers and any special links mentioned during the episode. Kellee loves connecting with listeners. So don't be shy. Reach out on social media and together let's build a community. That celebrates the remarkable. If you want to be notified every time a new episode hits the airwaves, just hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for joining us today and always remember. That you are made remarkable. Destined to achieve the unimaginable. Now let's get to the good part. Introducing Kellee Wynne and Erica Muddiman 

Kellee Wynne: Well, hello. Hello. I'm Kellee Wynne, artist, author, mentor, fiercely independent mother and wife, and the founder of a multiple six figure creative business. And I love my life, but I've been where you're at. I was slogging away at this art business thing for more than a decade. Once I finally connected with my true calling, unlock the magic of marketing and built a system that could scale, while I realize I can make an impact and make a substantial income, I'm finally running a business that I love and it makes all the.

Difference in the world. My biggest dream is to help you do the same. Let this podcast be the catalyst to your biggest success. You already have it in you because you are made remarkable. Hello, Erica.

Erica Muddiman: Hello. 

Kellee Wynne: I'm so excited to have you on here because Pinterest is one of my favorite platforms because it's so low pressure and I can be a hoarder without guilt. 

Erica Muddiman: That's actually a really good way to put it. I love Pinterest because it is where you can go to discover new things. And one of Pinterest's taglines right now is really where positive things happen.

You know, you don't have to worry about, comparison or imposter syndrome when you're looking at content on Pinterest. And that's, it's just a really positive place to be. 

Kellee Wynne: I couldn't agree more. It's like a little teeny giant magazine all in one little. Yes, like you're just thumbing through all the beautiful inspiration things that people give you ideas to do if I want a new recipe, if I want to learn how to do a specific art technique, if I want to learn business, I turn to Pinterest.

Probably as often, if not more for that type of work, than Google in all honesty, which is why they've been telling us. They probably people like you have been saying for so long. Don't ignore Pinterest. It's not like social media. It's a search engine, 

Erica Muddiman: Correct and it's a visual search engine. So that's why I think it is better than Google, right?

It's kind of like. Google and Instagram came together and they had a baby and it's Pinterest. So what I love about what you said on about going and discovering new things on Pinterest and searching out new ideas or Um solutions the problems is that's what makes Pinterest So great. It's like a full funnel marketing engine for your business.

If you're looking at it from that perspective, because people go to Pinterest, just like you said, to discover, to find solutions to their problems or to look at new ideas. And then they save that content to a board and then they come back later when they're ready to make a purchase. They're searching through those pins on that board that they've saved about X idea or X solution to whatever problem and they're like, okay, now I'm ready to take action.

And when you are consistent with your Pinterest marketing plan and you keep showing them pins about that, you're, you're essentially warming them up and you're reminding them. Oh yeah, I saved that pin to that board. Let me go back to that. And then you have a warm buyer. You have a warm person, maybe on your list or just in your funnel.

Maybe they're just following you on Pinterest. But it's much easier, as we know, to convert someone who is a warmer audience than it is a hold one. Pinterest, because you can do that full funnel strategies. 

Kellee Wynne: So it sounds to me like what you're saying is, is that we do still need to be consistent there, because they can't just see you one time.

I mean, there's always a miraculous click through, but it's the same and repeat all over the place. And of course, once you've saved something or click something from Pinterest, Pinterest says, Oh, they like this. Let's show us more. So you have to have more to be able to show them. 

Erica Muddiman: Exactly. And I say consistency is key on Pinterest, but that doesn't mean pinning 30 pins a day or, or going on and engaging with new content or, creating, I don't know.

I've talked to people who create 30 pins for every single blog post. It doesn't have to be that time for that. Great. But whatever you have the ability to incorporate into your, your schedule already, just as long as you're consistent with that, that might be pinning one time a day, two times a day, once a week, twice a week, whatever it is, stay consistent with that.

And you will continue to see growth and your followers or people who maybe have clicked on your pins before will continue to see your content moving forward. 

Kellee Wynne: Yeah. So then that brings us to, let's do an overview of like, what's working now. What should we keep in mind? Like I got on Pinterest when it was still in, like, you had to be invited.

Since the beginning, because as an artist and as a visual person, like it was like perfect for me and I've never. Thought of it really as social media, the way we do with everything else. But, I used to pin all the time and then I would notice years later, some of those pins were still getting people clicking back to my site.

In fact, many of my clients say that some of their best traffic to their website is still coming from Pinterest, which tells me it's like. We're under utilizing it as artists. We're really under utilizing its potential to get eyes on our courses, our programs, our products, whatever it is. But I'm kind of lost because it's changed so much.

Like you said, we were just chatting before this started, like, there was different types of pins and I didn't understand, like, that's when it lost me and I actually stopped using it as much. And so they must have heard that. Yeah. Well, let's just change it and make it more simple. So I've been back on a lot over the last few months, partially because I'm kind of tired of Instagram.

So I'm thinking the rates of people perusing Pinterest might be up a little. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah. And I think so too. And I think it goes back to, to that Pinterest being just a positive platform and. Pinterest has made a lot of changes this year. You know, they're not unlike Instagram or Facebook when it comes to that.

And I think for a while, this is a personal opinion, but they. Struggled a little bit, maybe with their identity like they were a search and discovery platform, but they saw you see what's working on instagram with video content with carousels on instagram. So they're like, let's create a carousel pin.

Let's create video pins. And so at that point, you had 5 different. Pin types. You had a standard image, which is what we know and love the original Pinterest, right? Then you had video and carousel. Then you had a shop pins where you could tag products. And then they introduced the idea pin, which we were talking about a little bit before we started recording.

Yes. Oh my gosh. It was first, it was a story pin and I was kind of. Hanging on the Instagram stories, then they changed it to idea pen and they wanted them to inspire. And I honestly thought they were going to stay around for a long time because they invested so much money in the idea pen, but just last month they surprised us.

And a pin is a pin is a pin on Pinterest now. So you have a standard pin, which is just an image, but then you also have a video pin if you're looking to differentiate them, but. Categorically in the algorithm, it's just a pin. So they're not necessarily favoring idea pins anymore in the algorithm or, the carousel pins used to be able to differentiate your pen types a little bit and get a boost with your analytics.

But that's all. It's all even playing field. Now we're all in the same level. The one thing that I am seeing working, though, kind of leaning into this switch up a little bit because I was doing idea pins for my clients for, the last several months, right? Because we knew that was working and it was new and we wanted to be rewarded for that in the algorithm, but video pins still remain.

Just really useful and they are getting a lot of engagement. I think as a society, we are engaging more with video content with, you know, about reels and tick tocks thing. So I think the same applies on Pinterest. They're eye catching. But 1 thing that I would recommend is, you know, are they getting the clicks?

Are they just getting views? Are there people clicking and going to your website to learn more? So, they might do a really good job at getting impressions, but do you have the right call to action? Is your description telling them why they should click and visit your website to learn more?

So those are some different things that you would want to look at when you're using those video pins. 

Kellee Wynne: I think that's a really good point. Watch time versus actual engagement time, but we really need to think about with every, honestly, everything that we do as business owners, is it actually engaging?

It doesn't matter how many eyeballs you got on it. Usually. If people aren't actually taking the next step, however, there is that point you made earlier, which is awareness of who you are. So that helps, but we do want the click through. The whole goal in my mind with Pinterest is will someone take action and get over to my website?

Even if once they're at my website, maybe they're not ready to buy anything yet, but it's still how many times do I get people onto my website? 

Erica Muddiman: Exactly. That's the ultimate goal. And I think that's been why Pinterest is so different than all the other platforms is it is designed to send traffic to your website, you know, so it is there.

It is a visual search engine, and you have the ability to add those links. And the next step, people who are on Pinterest and have been on Pinterest for a long time like you and I have know when you find something, you find an image that resonates with what you're looking for in your search, You click on it, and the next step is to click and go to that website and learn more where the user is trained to do that, which makes Pinterest so unique because, a user is not trained to do that on Instagram, on the flip side of that.

Instagram wants you to stay on the platform for as long as possible. They don't want you to necessarily leave. That's why, I think for a long time, they didn't give you the option to have links in your stories for so long. That's changed a little bit now because I think people were like, we need that ability.

We need the ability to do that. But, um, they want you to stay on the app as long as possible. 

Kellee Wynne: Well, Like I said, the hoarding mentality for me and I've even said it to my husband. I'm like, I'm just organizing my Pinterest boards. That was that was a while ago, but it's like, oh, my goodness. I can collect as many things as I want.

Yeah. Images, ideas, recipes, colorful, like my color crush creative Pinterest board is so much fun because it's all around the wildest and wackiest, funnest things that you can find on the internet. I love that. No. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, I can design this any way that I want and really collect things that I might not normally, not just physically in person, but like I might not normally.

Share or do on another site, but it's like this real fun playground for me and I do end up I find a lot of artists to follow on Instagram In fact, some of the people that I've asked to collaborate with I first found on Pinterest So I realize that's still a big part of how I Yeah, you know, right? Have the same habit as I do with Instagram is like, I'm going to check it multiple times a day.

Pinterest for me is more of a, I'm going to sit down and spend some time just for fun, surfing through it, finding the ideas that I want to find something very specific. Has anyone ever done this idea before? So I use it differently and I get into it when I want to search like, yeah, ideas or whatever.

Like there's so many ways that I know personally as a user. So I'm so used to using other social platforms as the producer, right? Yes. I'm really quite used to using Pinterest as the consumer. So I really understand more. Of how it can be used now, it's the point of getting to being comfortable with using it again as a producer, right?

The person is actually putting stuff and we started, finally getting we me and my team, because I don't do it all myself, or I probably just never do it. But we started. Earlier this year, consistently posting every day. Now we don't post a ton, maybe it's a few pins a day or we'll schedule out because Pinterest actually lets you schedule right in native in the platform.

But we're still just based off of bare bones knowledge, a good image. Proper link backs, keywords, SEO, keywords is still the most important and honestly, what I've been teaching for everything we do, whether it's your website or even Instagram, because Instagram is searchable by keywords now as well. So, it's keywords that are important, but what else, like, okay, so I could be putting the videos that I made for Instagram over there.

Yes. Right. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that is one of the biggest tips that I'm sharing right now with a lot of people who are like, I really, really want to be on Pinterest, but we just can't fathom adding another platform. And right now, and if you're already creating on Instagram, if you're creating a lot of videos, even if you're creating some images, just static images, or maybe you're on TikTok, I see a lot of those as well, too.

Those can absolutely be repurposed on Pinterest. And I, because I also, you know, I like to say that, what's the saying the cobblers children have no shoes or something like that. Like I don't have time for my own Pinterest to manage my own Pinterest account. So I am really right now, all I'm doing is repurposing some of the tech talks or reels that I'm creating.

If I'm creating over on Instagram or the other platforms, I've also started on YouTube this year, and with that, I've gotten into more every process and a system of creating YouTube video, creating some static image pins that go along with that video and then posting them on Pinterest, too. So that's worked into my process as well.

Kellee Wynne: That's a really good point. We don't have to be creating pins that go back to our website. Right. And this is the part that I had a mind shift about this year was like, I've always thought I need to have a really good blog so I can post the pins from the blog. And I used to think you actually had to have those images on your blog in order to pin them.

And now I know Those pins can be created outside of the site that they're going to and link to that site and it can be any of your sites. Yes, right. 

Absolutely. 

So we can even link to Instagram. Yes. If you wanted to, right? 

Erica Muddiman: Yes. I want to see if, yeah, but I want to give you a note on that just kind of like a little caveat.

You used to be able to, claim your Instagram. You could claim your Etsy. If you were an Etsy seller, you could claim your YouTube. And I think Pinterest did that because they're like, we're a traffic driver. We drive traffic. And if you own these other sites, or these other pages on these other platforms, then yeah, you can claim them and we'll send traffic there.

But then I think they realized. We don't want to send traffic to our competitors. So you no longer have the ability to claim those additional sites in your settings. Like you can claim your website. You can still claim your website and Pinterest will recognize your website as claimed. You know, the more you pin to it, the more you save to it, you will gain domain authority.

They will know who you are, what type of content you share. But if you previously claimed an Etsy or an Instagram, they're still there. But, Unfortunately, they're not prioritizing traffic to those other platforms anymore. So yes, I create pins for my YouTube, but I am that person that I created blog posts for that YouTube video and then I pinned to the blog post, but that doesn't mean you cannot.

Still pinned to YouTube because you can do that, but I would actually test both of them to see what works best. 

Kellee Wynne: Okay, I gotcha. That makes sense. So we know that they're keeping track of everything that happens. When there's clickbacks to my website, they're not going to keep track of all those other sites.

If there's a click to the other sites, correct? 

Erica Muddiman: If you have claimed it previously, like, before they made the change where you could no longer claim those additional sites, then yeah, you can still select them in your analytics and see what traffic is going there. If you haven't been regularly sending traffic to those sites, even if you have them claimed, you're probably not going to see many click throughs.

If you stay consistent with it, like, I work with some Etsy sellers. If you stayed consistent with it, then you will see traffic back to your Etsy site probably. But, if it's died off, I. Would guess not. 

Kellee Wynne: Yeah, but still traffic is traffic, whether you can. Yes, it or not. Correct. 

Erica Muddiman: Right. Correct. And I would also, so one thing I will mention about Etsy is, what I have noticed in analytics with one of my Etsy clients is they're not recognizing their click throughs.

When you select Etsy in analytics, they're recognizing them as other pins. So I know that might be confusing, but when you click on the other pins and analytics, their pins are showing up there with. Hundreds of link clicks. So I know that people are clicking on those links and going to their Etsy site, but Pinterest analytics isn't tracking them correctly right now.

And I think it is because they are, they're doing away with that ability to claim those other, those other sites. They're still sending traffic, like a lot of traffic. But analytics are a little messed up. 

Kellee Wynne: That's good to know for, because I'm sure there's still plenty of people in the art industry that are using Etsy.

I don't use it anymore except for to buy stuff. Yes. I still like to buy stuff from Etsy. What about, shop. They do have shop features on Pinterest, correct? 

Erica Muddiman: They do. So that was another change that happened this year. So say you had a Shopify website or you had a website that had products on it and you could basically connect your product catalog to Pinterest.

And on your profile, you would see a shop tab, which was so great because somebody could land on your profile, put it on the shop tab and see all of your products right there. And they even had the ability for a while, if you had a Shopify site to check out right on Pinterest. I think they still have that ability, but what Pinterest did change was that shop tab on your profile is no longer there.

Your catalog is still connected. And when you are SEO properly and you're using keywords properly, your products will show up as the products. catalog pin in search results. It just happened today for one of my clients and it was there, so it tells me that their catalog is still connected. People can still shop their catalog and it is showing up in search results because we have everything else SEO proper.

Kellee Wynne: Gotcha, so that's interesting. It seems like what they're trying to do is simplify. 

Erica Muddiman: Yes. I think they are 100 percent think they're trying to simplify a little bit, which I think as a Pinterest strategist, I appreciate and I think even to as a consumer or if you are someone who wants to DIY your Pinterest strategy as you get going, it makes it a little more user friendly, a little easier to understand.

Kellee Wynne: So, then let's go to the basics of pinning at this moment, since everything's simplified and we don't have to select which category our pin goes in. A pin is a pin is a pin, whether we're doing a carousel or a video or whatnot, some may get more traction than others. What about the idea that it needs to be a certain ratio?

Is that still? Essential because I have honestly seen some of my square pins do just as well. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah. So when you upload a pin to Pinterest natively on the scheduler or just on the platform in general, it will tell you that the preferred image ratio, it will tell you, will give you the dimensions and it is a vertical.

But that just exactly what you said.

Um, I have seen. Square images or, sometimes horizontal images, not as much, but I've seen square images or not even the perfect vertical ratio do just as well. As whatever their preferred ratio and pixel size is. I think if the image is engaging and the image, , is talking to your audience and speaks to your audience, they're going to click on it regardless of what the size is.

You know, That's what I'm finding. 

Kellee Wynne: Yeah, for sure. I think it's, well, horizontal doesn't seem to do as well as vertical just because you can't see the picture as much. Right. And that goes with Instagram or any of the others. It still seems square or vertical tends to be the best option.

What about using words on your picture? Because a lot of mine, without words, they get a lot of, I'm trying to think of the ones that get the most click backs and it's kind of split. Well, we have a couple videos that are doing really well right now, which tells me you're right, the videos can be really the best.

Erica Muddiman: Yeah. Yeah. I think it depends on your goal for that pin. Right. So is it just visual and you are hoping somebody clicks on it because it's a pretty image so, for example, I work with a photographer and he is a commercial photographer, but he doesn't have a blog. We just pin his commercial images or so he does product images. He does a lot of food images for restaurants, advertising, and we link those back to that image page. He has the image on his website or he has a category on his website. We're linking it back to there. We don't use any text on his images, but what we do so that we're targeting the right audience.

That wants to see his pin is we are using the pin title and we're using the pin description. We're using SEO in those areas and the right keywords to target the people that we want to see his images and those people are going to click through and go to his website because they want to learn about commercial photography or they want to hire a commercial photographer.

However, You know, it's the flip side of that. If you are teaching something in a blog post, if you are selling something, whether it be a product or a digital product, then you can absolutely use text on your image to tell the audience what that image is about, what the product is about, and the next step that you want them to take, whether it's click here, buy now, learn more, whatever it is, call to actions and text.

Really do well if you're advertising on Pinterest because you want to tell that person to take the next step, which is to go to the website and hopefully purchase or sign up your email list. But I think they work well, too, if you are targeting that kind of audience, and you still want them to do that organically, then you can use the same text and the same kind of action on the images to give them a little bit more info.

Um, again, just going back to that client that I work with who we're just pinning images, but we're targeting the right people with the SEO in the, pin description and the pin title. 

Kellee Wynne: So that makes my brain think I'm an artist. I have a lot of artwork on my site for sale. I could pin the artwork and the SEO I would want to use wouldn't be how the artwork is made, but who the artwork is for 

Erica Muddiman: correct. Correct. If you want to sell it to 

Kellee Wynne: interior designers or high end luxury art for sale, like you'd want to use those kinds of keywords. But if I'm an art course maker or coach, then the images that I'm using, the keywords I'd want to use would be how to. Media artwork or something. So we really want to be very specific in thinking about who our customer is in the keywords that we use.

So it's not just describing the image. It's talking about actually who you want to target, right? Who is your market? Who's your ideal customer? The way you want to use the terminology, but being really thoughtful. Our SEO really needs to be about. Who are attracting, right? 

Erica Muddiman: Right. So what I teach when it comes to keywords and SEO is to start with the topics, like your main topics for your business, your products, or your services.

What are those main topics? Like if you are an e commerce seller and you sell gift boxes, so your categories, your topics will be, gift boxes. gifts, but then maybe the types of gift boxes that you sell. So that might be birthday, bridal shower or bridesmaid proposal, get well soon. Those would be your topics.

It would be get well soon gifts. And then you do your keyword research based on that particular topic. Right. Does that make sense? Right. For sure. Yeah. And then that helps you, it helps you narrow your keyword research. By searching for that particular topic on Pinterest and then understanding, okay, what are people searching related to this topic?

And what are the keywords that I need to use in order for my audience to find my pin? 

Kellee Wynne: Gotcha. That's so helpful too, because we really have to be thoughtful about that. How I was doing it before was. Totally different. It was just so random spaghetti against the wall and definitely being a lot more thoughtful about that and using clear keywords so that it gets, when someone's doing a Google search, this can also show up and that's one of the things that's important.

Maybe those are the same keywords you should be putting on your website. Hint, hint, hint. Hint, hint, hint. 

Erica Muddiman: You're exactly right. You're exactly right. So the more consistent. Your pin is with your image, the text on your image, the text in your pin title, and your description is with the content that you're sending it to on your website or wherever you're sending that person that clicks on that pin, the more consistency there is, the higher Pinterest is going to rank it essentially in the algorithm.

Pinterest does without getting super technical and confusing. They give it a confidence score. They rank it essentially, based on the keywords that you're using. And the more relevant they are across all of those areas that we just mentioned, the higher the ranking is going to get, the higher they're going to rank it.

And the higher the ranking, the higher it will show up in search results. There's a lot of other factors that go into that, like engagement and clicks and all of that. But the basis of it is. Is that consistency, but as the 

Kellee Wynne: business one on one, let's get back to who do you serve? What do you do? What's your expertise?

And then make sure that that's congruent across all platforms. 

Erica Muddiman: Yes, absolutely. 100%. Yep. 

Kellee Wynne: Yeah. How important is re pinning at this point? It used to be like, if you weren't playing fair and sharing, they didn't respect the pins that you were making. But how important is it still to this? 

Erica Muddiman: That's a really great question.

And it's 1 that I love. In 2020, when Pinterest made. All of the big algorithm changes and updates. They said at that time that they will prioritize content of your own. They'll prioritize your content and the algorithm over other people's content that you are sharing, that you're pinning. , so if you are somebody who is brand new to Pinterest and you don't have a lot of pins or blog posts or products or whatever you're sending traffic to, if you don't have enough, to stay consistent, then you can share other people's content as long as it is relevant to your audience.

 But when it comes to an overall strategy for my clients, I am not sharing a lot of other people's pins, even if they are relevant to the client's audience, because sometimes if they're a product seller, anything that's relevant might be a competitor, right? And I want them to only click on my client's pins and go to their website.

But if it might be adjacent to their niche or their industry, then it's something that we can look at sharing. But, you know, a lot of times. And depending on the client, if they have a lot of content or a lot of products, We don't have to share other people's pins, but we're trying to fill a schedule and stay consistent.

You know, I would recommend maybe one a day, a couple of weeks. If you're trying to stay consistent and just pin regularly, but the goal here with Pinterest is we want people to go to our website or to our products or, wherever we're sending that traffic to. So the goal should be to really prioritize our own content versus pinning other people's.

Kellee Wynne: So. A pin being from outside of Pinterest and bringing it in and putting it into the system versus reach repinning like I'm searching for and I want to fill up my board full of rainbow colors that goes with color crush creative. We want some. How is that like, is that still relevant and and. Or you are discouraging doing too much of that even.

Erica Muddiman: So are you talking about sharing. Repinning your old, your own pins? 

Kellee Wynne: No, just like I've done a search for like candy colored desserts, you know, rainbow colored desserts. I don't want to make a whole pin board of rainbow colored desserts. I mean, it used to be like, you've got to be creating and resharing other people's pins on Pinterest.

Are you discouraging doing that or are you just discouraging pinning from outside of Pinterest on to Pinterest? 

Erica Muddiman: I'm discouraging doing that as well. They will prioritize your content first, anything that's going to your claimed website. And also by doing that, you're telling Pinterest.

What your website is, you're helping your website gain domain authority, what we call with Pinterest, which means they're more confident. You know, the more you're sharing links to that website, the more confident they are to show it to other people. They know it's safe. They know that you own it. More people are clicking on it.

So they're like, okay, this is a safe website. And it is about. XYZ content. So we'll prioritize it in these search results. So if you're sharing content from other people that may not be exactly aligned with your products or your website, it confuses the algorithm a little bit, but it's kind of thinking like, okay, well, we were sharing some content about XYZ over here and it went to this website.

Now we're sharing this over here. They're just going to, they're not going to prioritize it. And when it comes to resharing, they want you to share your own content first. 

Kellee Wynne: I think I understand what you're saying, but basically have a private account and pin all of the recipes you want. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah, if you want to pin something that's unrelated to your business, you can make your board secret and that anything that's on a secret board is not going to show up in the algorithm in search results and people visiting your profile won't be able to see it.

I mean, I have a personal profile and a business profile, and I still have secret boards on my business profile, but that might be something business related that I want to save, but it's not necessarily related to the content that I'm sharing about Pinterest, right? 

Kellee Wynne: Gotcha. That makes sense.

So what would be an ideal. That's another thing that I heard. We'll take it in this direction. For some reason right now, my team has said, and we're still learning, maybe we need to take some more training from you, more Pinterest training, but that we shouldn't be pinning from a specific URL more than once a day.

Erica Muddiman: It's a really good question. And this is where it gets really confusing. if you have one URL and. One pin image, right? So a URL with this pin image and you pin it to board A. They don't want you pinning that same URL, even with a new image, to that same board in the same day. 

Kellee Wynne: The URL would be okay if we pin it to a separate board.

Erica Muddiman: They do want you to wait. At least two days to pin that pin to an even a new board. 

Kellee Wynne: Okay, it's the same image So a url could that mean like? Just anything on my website or is it the URL for like this blog post, but I could re I could baby pin for this other blog post. 

Erica Muddiman: Yes, it's the it's the exact URL. 

Kellee Wynne: The exact URL.

Okay. That's very cool. So then maybe I could still put out 30 pins in 1 day because I already have like a million blog posts that I can go back and even post from older content. Correct? Right. 

Erica Muddiman: Correct. Yeah. As long as it's still relevant to my business. Yeah, exactly. I would say max pinning per day right now is like 15 to 20.

Okay. So I would keep it at 15 to 20. Most of my accounts do really well with 10 to 15 per day. And that is sharing new images, some older images from a previous, you know, that haven't shared a year ago or more. And then also not sharing that same image. I usually wait about a week before I share that same image to a different board.

Kellee Wynne: Great. That's good. Give it a little time. So We probably need a good hundred images in rotation at any given time. Yeah. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah. 

Kellee Wynne: You know what? Canva is a dream. Canva can help you make that, like, look at it split. I can take something I created for Instagram and then I can just click, you know, even my YouTube covers.

I can click it over and say, make it into a pin. Size and then move the pieces around the next thing. I know it's like all the work I did for one thing I can repurpose for Pinterest. 

Erica Muddiman: Yeah, it makes it so much easier and I teach My process that I teach is really how to do like five pins in five minutes You create a set of pin templates before you even get started that templates that already have your branding Yeah, maybe it's an image here or an image here and another one and they have your text and your fonts and all of that.

It's a matter of going in and dropping images and updating the text and the title and you can do that so quickly once you have those templates created. So you can knock out. 10 and 10 minutes, you can do 30 and 30 minutes, like you, you just keep going as long as you know what you are designing for what content you can knock those out so quickly.

Kellee Wynne: So far, like, for example, we have one of our strategies right now, and I'll just give this away is, I have probably at least 12 active art courses at any given time. So we've created blog posts about that. We have it on their sales page about that art course we have, and then we're working on some other like behind the scenes, maybe we'll have more than one blog post.

And so we have a template, we've designed templates and a lot of them, I think I purchased designs off of like, um, what's the one site that you can buy creative market. And then, Canva has a lot of templates too. So Canva, what we've done is we created a set of in brand with the logo, you know, have like 10 or 20 different like templates that we use.

And then we do exactly what you said. We switch out the images, we switch out the text. So if this week, our goal is to just. Create everything we need like because you can't create all like creating 101 day might be exhausting. Maybe you can outsource it. Maybe you can go, but what we'll do is we'll just pick one thing a week and focus on.

So like this week, we're just focusing on my art course, Seascape Escape, and then we have a list of all the different URLs we can send the link to all the different and then we'll just match up and do so many a day on that subject. I love that. I love that. We do have a strategy. We're just kind of like guessing and our strategy, the SEO, we're still working on the amount to do how much to share, but I am seeing pretty rapid growth now.

I mean, I do remember when they changed the algorithm in 2020 and I was bummed because I went from hundreds of thousands of views down to like none and I'm like, what happened? But maybe it's a more realistic algorithm. Maybe it's more quality views. And I still have pins from ages ago that are getting some traction, which is kind of cool.

Well, I have some with a lot of dead links, and I don't know if there's a way to fix once it's out. It's out. 

Erica Muddiman: It's out. It's out. If you figure out what the link is, you can create a redirect if you want it to go somewhere else on your website. I had to do that with a couple because I changed some URLs, but just create a redirect on your hosting site and, and then it can go back to that because the good thing, the crazy thing, and I bet what you're seeing too is, You have those old pins on your page that have always been there and they've done well, but once you start pinning regularly again, those start to do better also.

So it's just like once people start clicking on your stuff, it's like, Oh, I'm now I'm going to see more of everything that she had. Really interesting part. The really interesting thing about when you're running ads on Pinterest as well, which is, you know, we haven't even chatted about it. Okay. We'll get to that.

We'll get to that. When you're running ads on Pinterest, the nature of the Pinterest platform is that people are seeing your pins, they're clicking on them, they're engaging, right? And the algorithm knows that the more that someone is clicking on your pin and engaging with it, then the more they're going to show it in other searches because they think you're telling the algorithm it's irrelevant.

And for that search. So when you're running ads, you're paying for those clicks and those engagements, but what's happening is people are seeing your ad and they're engaging with it and they're telling Pinterest. I like this. I want to see more of it. So then they start showing more of your organic content as well.

So always almost Every person that every client that I've worked with who runs ads will see an uptick in their organic content as soon as they start running ads, even if they're not pinning regularly, but their organic pins will start to show up in search results. And then they see this residual effect, traffic effect on their organic content, just from running some traffic ads or conversion ads, whatever they may be.

And when the opposite of happens as well, they stop running ads. Then that process stops the engaging, the seeing, the clicking, the engaging stops. So their organic numbers take a little bit of a hit, even if they were, pinning organically regularly. And that's sometimes hard to explain to clients.

They're like, what happened to my organic numbers? We're, we were doing, we're still doing organic marketing. And I'm like, well, you were spending a lot of money over here and now we've stopped those ads or we've turned some of them off. So, you know, the organic content it's. It's all correlated. It's all correlated in some ways.

Kellee Wynne: That's the same with social media when I'm running them on Instagram or Facebook is then that brings more awareness. So then I have more engagement on my other posts. Now, Instagram is not going to serve my other posts up to that person. But that person might come onto my feed and see what I'm doing.

Follow me. Yeah. And that's what I did. That's how I found you actually click on your link and buy something right away. I was like, I want to get to know this person more. So I followed your account and now I'm engaging more with your products. But being said, you know, thank you for. Running ads on more than just one platform because I don't see you on Pinterest, but how are Pinterest ads performing at this moment, especially since you obviously run them for meta ads as well.

Yeah. How are they comparing and. 

Erica Muddiman: They are so different. Like that, if there's anything that I can get across to your audience about Pinterest ads and meta ads is that they are completely different. What works on Facebook and Instagram does not necessarily work on Pinterest. You have to think of the basis of the platform, which is what we started talking about at the beginning of this conversation.

It's a search and discovery network. So it is not necessarily a click and buy now. People are not going to click and buy now they do, but because of it being a search and discovery there, they are going to search and discover first. So that's where I love Pinterest as an ads platform because. You have this full funnel opportunity to meet them where they are in the buying process or in their decision making process.

So you start with the awareness or the traffic, you're building awareness, you're driving traffic. You're kind of meeting them like in the problem aware. Phase of their whole process, right? They're searching for a solution and they come across your ad. They click on it. They may not buy it, but they're learning more.

Well, then you, you kind of come across as a, you do a conversion campaign and you retarget them with the product. Maybe they're ready to buy. Maybe they're not ready to buy. But then, my favorite category of ad campaign on Pinterest is that catalog campaign. So we talked a little bit earlier about the ability to connect your catalog, your product catalog to Pinterest.

And when you run a catalog campaign, This campaign type just, I don't know what it is. It just converts like crazy. It's like your safety net. It's what I call it for my clients. It is your safety net ad campaign. So we're meeting the people in a traffic campaign and the awareness stage of their buying process.

Then we're retargeting them to remind them, Hey, we're still here. You still have this problem. Remember this product that you engaged with or you saved or you clicked or you went to our website. And then the catalog campaign, it's like. We are really still here. Remember this product it's time to buy. And most of my clients and I'm, and this is not an exaggeration we're spending.

I've never spent more than 20 a day on a catalog campaign. And we see consistent like five X plus return on just a very low cost campaign. And it's because. We have done that work with a full funnel strategy of warming them up. So by the time they see that catalog campaign, they know who we are. They're ready to buy, ready to make a purchase.

Kellee Wynne: That makes so much sense. I mean, I get a lot of ads. You know, for like household ads, like things that I'd actually don't see in a lot of other sites. Yeah, sometimes I see, I feel like there's still so much space and it's underutilized for people like me with smaller business. 

Erica Muddiman: I agree. I agree. I think there are a lot of content creators, and digital product creators too that.

Aren't necessarily taking advantage of Pinterest ads right now. And I think that it depends. I can go on Pinterest and search for what I sell and I can find some maybe adjacent competitors, not necessarily direct competitors. So for me, I think that's an opportunity. I guess like I, that's why I was advertising on Pinterest and meta.

I want to see like, what is going to convert better? What's where's my audience at? Well, my audience is most definitely on Pinterest, but they both worked, but in different ways, right? Does that make sense? Well, 

Kellee Wynne: my guess is, is on meta Instagram, you're getting the people who are tired of Instagram and wanting revenue, whereas people on Pinterest are like, I'm already here and I think it makes sense.

So I can see how they're like a different message and that's just what we have to learn no matter where we're at to make sure that we're keeping the customer who's on that platform in mind for sure. 

Erica Muddiman: Right. And I think. Facebook, I think when you're scrolling through honestly, there are more people who will click and buy.

So if you're just running a straight conversion campaign to a low ticket offer or a low cost product, there are, you will find more people that just click and buy from a cold audience, pure cold audience on Pinterest. That's not, that's just not the audience. They're there to learn first. And discover, and then they will make a product purchase after they have discovered and done their research.

That's the type of buyer that's on Pinterest. They have to be warmed up. That's why that catalog campaign converts so well, because we're retargeting the warm audience, the warm audience, as opposed to a cold audience, just converse better on Pinterest. 

Kellee Wynne: That's really good to know. Yeah. I'm thinking I might need to hire you to help me with some Pinterest.

Erica Muddiman: There we go. I'm here. I'm here. 

Kellee Wynne: How can other people connect with you or hire you or what kind of services can you offer them at this point? Yeah. Some of us artists who are just really ready to blow up our business and do something better than what we've been doing. 

Erica Muddiman: Absolutely. You can find me. My website is summit virtual solutions.com.

I'm also on Instagram at Summit Virtual Solutions. I hang out a lot there and my services right now that I offer kind of a variety, but I've. Started with the basic in the very beginning when I started my business and that was pinterest organic management And then I grew to add ads management or promoted pins management services And then I have a package that does both remember we were talking about how your ads benefit your organic and that is really kind of like The full circle when it comes to, you know, a full fledged Pinterest marketing plan.

But I also offer, just what we were talking about with DIY and your ads. If you want, I offer an ads consulting call as well. If it's something that you're interested in setting up or you're interested in exploring a little bit, we can do a one hour call and kind of go through anything and everything.

In your Pinterest ads account, getting it set up, kind of helping you launch the ads or getting to that point, really whatever you want to cover the hours is yours. 

Kellee Wynne: That's really a great offer and I know that a lot of people will be like, please just take me to the end so that I know how to do this. Yes.

Instead of sitting behind for a couple of years like I've done. And now I'm on the Pinterest train and I'm loving it and I'm really glad that I'm back on and using it. I'm so happy to hear that. So much more now. Thank you, Erica, for 

Erica Muddiman: thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 

Kellee Wynne: Appreciate it. I love it. 

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