[00:00:00] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Well, hello. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Kellee Wynne, and you're listening to Made Remarkable. I am in a really good mood today. I'm super excited about this podcast episode and I just wanted to check in with you and see how you're doing. I love Spring. I love the cool T-shirt weather.

I love the sun staying up a little longer every day. I love connecting with you. I love connecting with other artists. And this week has been a deep dive into business foundation, something I call creative core mapping with my remarkable league. And they are so dynamic, such amazing entrepreneurs, and I just see all these light bulbs going off and connections being made amongst colleagues.

And it's like everything that I had hoped for and been working towards for a really long time. I know that this is really the place to be as somebody in our industry who needs that boost, that needs to see their business grow. No more few hundred dollars here or a thousand dollars there. We're talking about million.

Well, at least that's my dream. And collectively, I have no doubt we're gonna get there. I'm gonna keep you updated cuz eventually the doors are gonna open again and I wanna invite you to apply. In the meantime, you can always get yourself on the wait list by either going to made remarkable.com/apply or go to made remarkable.com/ 101 0 0 and download the 100 ways.

PDF and I think that this guide, 100 ways to Make money as an artist without selling your art is gonna be revolutionary for you because you're gonna be able to see outside of the box that we are traditionally put in as artists that the only way to make money, especially if you went to university and they're like, it's the gallery or nothing.

Guess what? Not everyone's made for a museum. Some of us, we are meant to do different things and that's what I'm seeing so many different ways to connect, so many ways to use your talent and to show up as a light that you are. It just, it makes me excited a lot like the guest today, I have a new friend.

Literally, I. Andrea of a work of Heart studio and I are gonna be really good friends over the long term. The reason we connected was years ago she was doing a project, as she still runs it now you're gonna hear about it, under the influence where you look at study and emulate artists that you admire and make some work in that style, which I think is really clever.

Honestly intriguing to me, and she had reached out and asked if I. Be one of those artists. It doesn't mean I had to do anything. She just asked for permission first, which I thought was really cool, and I said, sure, go about it. But it just took me forever to reconnect with her again for some reason. And then one day it just like clicked on me.

I'm like, she's in San Jose, she's got a gorgeous studio. I love her art. She seems like loads of fun and I'm gonna go visit my mom. So why not teach classes in person? And then we had a chance to talk face-to-face through Zoom, and it was like, oh, we are a lot alike. We have a lot of similar interests.

We could have loads of fun together. And these workshops that we're putting together for you on May 12th and 13th are gonna be so much fun and they're already filling up because we've announced it. So if you are interested at all in doing some fun hands-on mixed media, being around like-minded people and feeling the energy of creativity, again, I really encourage you to go and check out a work of heart.com.

A work of heart with an h there.com or go to the show notes and you'll be able to find the links to go and check out these classes. There's one class in the morning on the 12th, one in the afternoon on the 12th, and then one all day on the 13th. This is the only time that I have planned for teaching in person for the foreseeable future cuz this isn't.

My normal business model. As you know, I podcast, I teach business, I help entrepreneurs and I run Color Crush creative. But I am more and more working my way away from being the one teaching the art and more the one guiding the artists to teach art, if that makes sense to you. I hope you understand that that's a position I'm moving into.

That's why we're here on the podcast. We talk about remarkable people doing remarkable things and hopefully inspiring you to. Be courageous and do remarkable things. So maybe what you need to do is get on that flight and fly out to San Jose. It happens over Mother's Day weekend. Celebrate yourself a little bit and come, let's make some art together.

Let's get to know each other and get to know Andrea cuz she is so fun. She is really amazing. Has a gorgeous business that she's built up for herself over decades now where she has created this nurturing place for artists to gather, to make, to create, and she inspires so many, and she's inspired me a lot.

The part that I can't wait for is going to the Alameda Antique show with her and getting to know her better and then making art, just for fun, for play, for the joy of it again, but you're really gonna enjoy this conversation. We hit it off really well, and I have a feeling she's gonna be back on the podcast more than once because she's just got that right vibe.

You're gonna love this podcast, so I'm gonna. Talking now and just let you listen to her. All right. Introducing AndreaChebeleu.

Andrea, how do I say your last name? Shalu. Shalu. Is it French?

[00:06:15] Andrea Chebeleu: It's Romanian. My husband was Romanian. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:17] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Oh, how awesome. That comes romance language. Yeah. That's very cool. '

[00:06:24] Andrea Chebeleu: Yep. California, born and bred. It took a long trip around to settle back in California, so started in California and here's where I am again. So, ah, yeah. I'm a California girl. Are you? Yeah, I can sense them, right? I can. Yeah. We know each other a little bit.

[00:06:42] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I was raised in Southern California and I spent a few years in the Rockies, did my young twenties in California and joined the military. How does an artist join the military? I'm not sure, but it was probably exactly what I needed. Yeah. And met my husband who's from the East coast. So in 99 we moved out here and I miss California terribly. Now. I just miss missing California. I got used to it here, but the good news is I'm coming for a visit and I'm coming to meet you and I'm coming to spend time in San Jose where my mom is, and I'm coming to for the first time since 2019, teach in person.

I am so excited. I'm amazing. A work of heart studio and I just can't wait. And I am so glad, honestly, feel bad that it's taken me years to properly connect with you because I feel like you're my soul sister in California.

[00:07:38] Andrea Chebeleu: I know. We just can't wait to like finally connect and be like, yes, yes. We knew this was gonna work. This is totally first of many. And don't worry about how long it took. It just took what it took. That's what I always say. People are like, oh, I wish I knew about your store sooner. I'm like, well, but now you do. It's all good.

[00:07:54] Kellee Wynne Conrad: So the whole point of. Get together right now is just for us to chat and have fun and talk about the things that we come up across as instructors, as business owners, and how we see the world and how we both have a very abundant universe's, plentiful kind of yes mindset, and I love that conversation. So we'll talk about that, but also to invite everyone who's listening to come to the workshops. They are on the 12th and 13th of May. We'll have two different time slots for Friday the 12th, a morning,

[00:08:26] Andrea Chebeleu: Which is by the way, I think Mother's Day weekend. So it would be a really nice Mother's Day gift for yourself to like just plan a weekend in the Bay Area.

[00:08:33] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah, you can fly into San Jose airport. It's right close by. Stay in a fun little hotel nearby and just come and join and have fun for, yeah, two full days of making and playing, and we'll be announcing exactly what those courses are and putting 'em on the website links and bio, but anyway, let's get into the heart of why you do what you do and how you got here.

[00:08:56] Andrea Chebeleu: Oh my gosh. I love, love, love, love, love. Just making things. Just making things. I was always a kid that, had a lot of alone time. I was an only child, so I'm just made stuff from the get-go. And, all my life it's always been something like sewing my grandma was a seamstress or home decor, fixing things up and, making my home nice. And then introduce scrapbooking and shortly thereafter, you know kids, right? Kids in scrapbooking and all just...

[00:09:23] Kellee Wynne Conrad: oh, I love it. Do you know what? Do you know how many women I've come across that realized that that was our gateway, gateway back into making. More painting type, mixed media type. Yeah. But scrapbooking, I think was the gateway for so many of us from the two thousands into the teens. And then yeah, suddenly we realized there was more to get.

[00:09:44] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah, 1995 is when I started and I ended up doing it as an actual. Which kind of takes the joy out of it. I'll just say for me it did at least.

But I did that as a business and it's what moved me out of my home studio into a commercial space. And so now I've been in a commercial space for. 20 some odd years, wow. Yeah. So I, I lose count. I'm not real good with tracking how many years I even up,

[00:10:10] Kellee Wynne Conrad: even through the ups and downs of economy crashing and covid.

[00:10:16] Andrea Chebeleu: Absolutely. You know what was interesting is because economy crashing tends to mean that people aren't going on big, long extended vacations, but they'll invest in classes. It's not super unaffordable, and so they need to do something, which I'm so grateful that I'm there.

Yeah. To provide that. And that was the same thing with Covid, when we could no longer get out anymore. My first in initial instinct was, oh my goodness. I'm relying on butts and seats to pay my rent on this 3,200 square feet that I have in downtown San Jose. You know, I'm like, oh, yay. How am I gonna do this?

But luckily, I am a techy person, and so I had everything already. Purchased and said that's how I teach in my classroom. You'll be there, you'll see I have a document camera, it projects to a screen, all the tech is there. And so it was just a matter of me bringing that from the studio home, cuz our internet's much better at home.

And I think we were called out of place like we're shelter in place or whatever on the 13th and the 17th was my first class. Yep. Four days later I was up and, and teaching. Amazing. I mean, I was already primed in position because I was already teaching online, but let's go back to of course, in the nineties and the two thousands really, we weren't doing online teaching at all. Mm-hmm. So the only option was in person and oh man, I remember some of those scrapbooking events that were just like heaven for me because I wanted the break from the kids and I wanted to be around other creatives and it was probably in some ways harder to find at the time. But man, I loved it. So you started with scrapbooking? I did. Probably scrapbooking and card making and stamping and Exactly. Paper crafting. Yeah, all the, all the things. And then that led into, I had a customer, a student walk into my, studio to rent some time, cuz I would rent the studio by the hour.

You could come in and just use it like your own big, craft room. She came in with a cloth paper, scissors magazine, and I had never seen one before and my mind just went, yeah. It's like, what is this magic? So all the things that I was using for scrapbooking for others, now I'm seeing done in altered books and artist trading cards and I'm like, whoa, hold the phone.

Oh, okay. When was that? When was that? That must have been, I know the studio I was in, so it was 10, 16 years ago. Yeah, about 16 years ago.

[00:12:38] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Oh, late two thousands. That's about when I had my wake up too.

My third was born and I just had that moment where I'm like, okay, I'm using everybody else's stickers and designs and papers. To make art and I just wanna use my product, my ideas, my creations to then make art. Because I do have an art background from prior to joining the military, I just, art school, military one was gonna be expensive, the other one paid me.

But, coming full circle, I gave myself time to transition. Mm-hmm. You know, it is, it was the fall of 2008 when I was like laying there on the trampoline with my little several month old baby, and I am just like, I'm giving myself two years to start making my art again.

Yeah. But it was things like seeing where the evolution of even scrapbooking was going because it was no longer just a photograph and some stickers and some words. It started becoming very much spraying paint and just all these lovely layers. And that's when I was like, oh, this is what I remember wanting to do.

[00:13:40] Andrea Chebeleu: Right, right. So, And , as you were saying that, it just reminded me how there was a time back then where I felt this very distinct resistance from women to take time for themselves. Mm-hmm. And the only justification they could make for taking time for themselves is this thought that they were creating some sort of legacy thing for their family.

Which, may or may not be true. But I mean, I keep wondering who's gonna take all of these big photos? I know. Let me tell you, when I did it for hire, we're talking like filling library shelves in, in clients', houses with these huge leather bound, close to my heart leather bound journals that were just filled.

Which is great. But back to the point of women taking time for themselves, there was so much. Resistance to that and did not resonate with me. I even back then knew how very important this creative act was. Yeah. And how very healing it was, and how very connected to spirit it was that it felt like this is not an extravagance.

This to me, felt as important as going to the gym, as going to, the grocery store, making sure that I'm buying lots of healthy foods. This was part of my. Health practice, right?

[00:14:49] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I think so, for sure. Yeah. It's that need to still have something for yourself, for your own personal growth, for your own self-exploration, the connection with absolutely.

[00:15:01] Andrea Chebeleu: Otherwise we, I would've lost that and I saw that happening with so many of my friends and I just was like, Just don't. Just don't like, let that happen. Don't lose yourself. Right.

[00:15:12] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Don't lose yourself. Don't lose yourself. But I'll find that women today have that same struggle,

[00:15:16] Andrea Chebeleu: They do. I think that just the narrative contrary to that is getting louder, and I'm really happy for that.

[00:15:22] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Me too. Like it's like finally, this is our time. Whether you work outside of the home or your full-time work is in the home as a stay-at-home mom or working from home. We all work and we all need some sort of, it's all work.

And even running your own art business now I feel like I need art as an outlet for my art business.

[00:15:43] Andrea Chebeleu: There's two distinct kinds of art that I make art that's being filmed and there's art that's on my couch when nobody's watching. Right. I'm just closing corner of the couch with my My new Everything journal. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:56] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Oh, and I'm so excited to learn more about your Everything journal. When did you transition the physical space though? Into more than just scrapbooking type? Was it very soon after that you started bringing that in?

[00:16:10] Andrea Chebeleu: So it was always like stamping card, making scrapbooking from the time I moved out into the commercial space in let's just say 2000 .

It was always that, and then I started adding more and more and more. So it's just been this. Gradual transition to what it is now. I had a business partner for a minute. In one of my locations and her business was scrap lovers. It's no longer in, in business, but scrap lovers and I'm a work of heart.

And so for a period of time we were scrap lovers at a work of heart. Okay, because I did more, I did the teaching part and she did the supplies part, and she was a very eclectic scrapbook. Online store. It was very mixed media heavy. And so that made it really easy to kind of transition into that.

[00:16:57] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love that. And now you, how long have you been in the location you're at in San Jose right now? I've been there in June. It'll be six years. Yeah. And weathered through the online transition. Mm-hmm. But I'm glad people are still coming to your store because you even showed pictures. I knew you were there and I had been thinking about it for a long time, but you had shown pictures of your studio and I'm like, that is the nicest place to teach. I am gonna have to reach out to her.

[00:17:27] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah, for sure. I'm so glad you did. And anybody else who's listening, if you want a place to teach in San Jose, like reach out to me because I love collaborations

[00:17:35] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Exactly one of the reasons I wanted to do this, besides the fact that I wanted to meet you and have something fun to do while I was in San Jose, not that I can't find a million fun things to do when I'm with my mom because she's like probably my best friend and we always have fun things to do. But I really wanna connect again in person with people, and I've missed that though. I love teaching online, and I'm really mostly passionate right now as I transition my business into business coaching. Mm-hmm. And supporting people that way. Every now and then.

It's just so important to be face-to-face and see how people are experiencing making art so I can take that information back. I can see how people's hearts are aligning with what's happening. I can feel that energy again. It's like something magical about being in person that we've almost gotten so accustomed in the last three. To just miss.

[00:18:30] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah. It's strangely bizarre, but it is this feedback loop that you get when you're in person. Mm-hmm. And you get it to some degree online. But don't you find that online? I'm looking for the comments, I'm looking for the likes, I'm looking for whatever.

And that's the feedback that I'm getting. And when you're in a room with people actually learning something, yeah. You get to actually hear them go. You know? Right. You don't get to hear that like you're missing so much when they're consuming your content pre-recorded or whatever.

That's the part that I don't really realize that I missed. Now, there are lots of parts that I really appreciate doing. Recorded classes or even live Zoom classes and stuff like that. I still love that. I will never stop that.

[00:19:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Me too. Because then we have the ability to support and teach people around the world

[00:19:18] Andrea Chebeleu: And it's like the effort that I've done one time can then live on sort of, evergreen I can teach watercolor 1 0 1 1 time, and I don't have to have that be like a regular repertoire of my right teaching.

It's recorded. You can go buy it. This is what I consider, the basics, chapter one. So yeah.

[00:19:33] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And I do love, I will never give up online teaching because I feel like it's just so flexible and so dynamic and so easy to reach so many people. Yeah. But I think now, and those who. Avid listeners who are growing a business consider putting in-person back into your schedule.

Yeah. At least once or twice a year so that you are actually connecting properly. Like in real time, in real energy, in real physical flesh. Yes. Yeah. That really changes things again, and it doesn't have to be high priced, I don't think Our courses, for the 12th and 13th are gonna be very expensive at all.

[00:20:07] Andrea Chebeleu: They're actually back to pre covid prices. Which is a good thing. Yeah.

[00:20:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. So yeah, so I'm looking forward to that, and then getting the feedback in more real time. But yeah, there's a balance between the two. Obviously, the more economical point of view is to.

Create online courses of some sort or another online experiences, whether it's a course, a membership, a summit, or Zoom or whatever. There's so many ways to do it online. Yeah, because let's be honest, by the time I paid for the flight and everything to get there, really I'm just doing this to cover the costs of the trip and have fun and meet people.

[00:20:47] Andrea Chebeleu: Exactly, and there's just something about that part. I remember talking with, , Julie Balzer decades ago. She's taught for me lots of times in the studio. And, she was talking about that like, yes, I definitely make more money teaching online. And that's where my income comes, that's how I support my family.

But there's something that doesn't fill me up there that I only get in in person. So even though it. You know, financially make the most sense to do that all the time. Mm-hmm. Definitely getting what you get and recognizing how it fills your soul to be there with like-minded creatives. It fills up that well, right. I get rejuiced, re excited, like, I'm like, ooh. I really do love this. I love what I do. I love teaching. I love, experimenting and playing with stuff and doing it with other people is just the best

[00:21:34] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I know. Even Roben-Marie Smith, she's a friend of mine, said that she did the squam with Kiala Givehand last year, and it just like something clicked in her head.

Like that experience, obviously it's not a high paying job, it's really almost like you just don't have to pay for the retreat yourself. You don't really make money as an instructor, but you do it because of the love of it. And I noticed even when she was talking about flipped in my head, I'm like, yeah, that is the missing component.

And I think it's time. Yeah. Even though you're just recovering from covid now. Cause it's still a thing. It's still a thing, but it's time now that it's not as big of a thing that we get back in person. Yeah.

[00:22:13] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah it is. And so I, just hosted my first, retreat where it was just me, back at the end of March and. It was incredible. It was just the energy, the connection that people had. And I have to remind myself, cuz then I'll get like, hoping that I'm gonna give them all the content that they want. And I know that I will, right? Mm-hmm. But I remember there being teachers that I would bring in that people would say, you know what?

I don't care. She could teach us how to tie her shoe. I just wanna be there with her and like absorb some of her, energy. His energy. Right. Cuz I've had, male teachers there as well. But There's just nothing like that.

[00:22:49] Kellee Wynne Conrad: There isn't, and it could be the same thing that they're teaching online, but it's different when you do it in person because you can ask in real time questions, you learn honestly, the students teach me so much and they teach each other so much.

[00:23:00] Andrea Chebeleu: Exactly. That's the thing that people don't get when you are elbow to elbow or shoulder to shoulder or six feet apart. Cuz we're socially distanced. Right. When you're like, You not only get what the teacher's teaching you, you get all of the students that are around you, you're looking around.

You can't do that on the screens, right? No. And you're like, oh my gosh, what color did you use? Oh, how did you get that effect? You are now getting exponentially more right instruction by showing up for something in person,

[00:23:28] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right? And we share it in our Facebook groups and online and whatnot, which is really nice. But it's not the ability to actually watch your artist friends.. Your colleagues who, whomever the other students in real time creating as well. And I've always used this tool, and you're like, oh, mind blown, right? Yes. You know, and so like even for me, I'm learning stuff from the students all the time.

I understand color composition and design, but I don't know every mixed media technique that's out there. And I'll also. Inventing new stuff all the time. Right, exactly. Yeah. So, and repurposing and repackaging and like mashing it up. I love that stuff. Yeah, I love that. Fiber arts is really coming to the forefront right now of mixed media.

Yes. It's like super taking over and I'm so excited for that because I have a background in quilting and sewing and decor just like you. Like I did, yeah. I made everything prom. I made 'em because they were gonna be more interesting if I made 'em. Plus I wanted to be Molly Ringwald who made her own prom dress.

But that's all I can totally see that. Yeah, that's awesome. But I do, I love that fiber arts and um, and just so many different like ways. I've had some crazy ideas in my mind for ages and I did go through a phase myself. Proper art, because I come from an artist background. My father's an artist, oil painter, and my great-uncle and whatever.

And if you wanna be in galleries, it's proper art. And there was something that clicked for me a few years ago that was finally like, you know what? I want to have fun when I make art and I don't give a shit about proper art. I don't care if I'm using house paint or gluing stuff on whatever goes because that's when the joy comes out.

Yeah. And I love taking the things I learned from scrapbooking and my earlier years of crafting and putting it in what I'm making now.

[00:25:21] Andrea Chebeleu: Oh my goodness. All those texture plates, all the different ways that we can use those texture plates now all the stuff, it gets used. It all comes back. Yeah.

[00:25:29] Kellee Wynne Conrad: It all comes full circle and I realize I need all those layers. I need all of those ways of being playful and I need it to be sparkly and fun and pink and I don't care. Yeah. One thing that you and I started talking about before I hit record and I'm like, we should just be recording this for sure, is the industry does shift and change and a lot of people are coming online to create courses and.

Sometimes there's a fear of what I create is gonna be copied or used or, even the whole discussion around AI art, and you and I both like immediately came to this consensus of it's not mine, it's the universe. I don't care. Let it go. Bless and release. Yeah. Like just whatever you're gonna make. I don't feel like I own my art.

Yeah, I have some interesting and unusual ideas sometimes, but when I teach it, once it's out into the world, I expect people to take on it and iterate after it. And I'm not policing anyone on that because there's really nothing new under the sun. Where did I get my ideas from? Right.

[00:26:30] Andrea Chebeleu: Right. We're all under the influence of, the pool that we're in. Right? There's no changing that we're swimming in the same water. We're going to be influenced by it. And I just think that I prefer energetically to just have that mentality of once I release it, it is yours. Yeah. My intention for this is to. Help other people feel like it's less difficult to be creative, like take down all those barriers.

Oh, look, she slapped a couple things down. I like the way that looks. Let me try that. That's what I want. I want people to feel empowered and able to be creative in short little bursts of time. That is my whole purpose. Yeah. And if that's what they're doing, great. If I get credit, that's sweet, that's nice.

That's like cherry on the top, pat on the back. But that's not why I am doing it. Yeah. I'm doing it because I think that it's so vitally healing and important to get my hands in there and do something, anything as often as I can.

[00:27:26] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And for me, I want my students to have no fear right of, of me at all policing them or

worrying about who's making what and how they're making it, or whose idea it was first I started doing the grid journal. Yeah. Like just obsessively doing it. And I've seen it done so many times by so many other people, but I started doing it to the point that people are like, show me more. So I just made a free course for it.

And someone made a point on it to say, but so and so did that before you, and I'm like, Yeah, it's really awesome. But also my dad showed me how to do it too. So whose idea was it first? I don't own it. If somebody does grid journaling, great. If they give me credit, like you said, that's even better because if you're giving me a little bit of credit, what happens is people can come get the free course and more people can do it.

Right? Like that's the point. Like, I'm not trying to own it, but don't, don't tell me someone did it before, look at any famous artist from history in their sketch. People did thumbnails and grids for ages. I just put my own spin on it and somebody else is gonna put a different spin on it and just exactly for it.

[00:28:30] Andrea Chebeleu: And then we get to all enjoy the soup together. Right? Right. We get to all enjoy the flavors. I do this thing called Under the Influence, which I'm hoping that I can, have you in my next season. I do this thing with Under the Influence and we do exactly that, just like with the. apprentices used to follow a master, right?

And learn under them. I'm taking that and just modernizing it, and we're looking at people like Kellee Wynne and we're like, look at what are the elements that Kellee Wynne's using? What do what makes me lean in and be like, Ooh, how'd she do that? I wanna incorporate a little piece of that spice in my work.

Right? We're not there to copy. And try and, pass ourselves off as Kellee Wynne. We're just saying. Oh my gosh, I love that. Let me honor that, which I love, and let me try it in my own work. And then, we have our own soup. We can't be Kellee Wynne, right?

[00:29:19] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Okay, so for two things. First my thought is, There's always gonna be an iteration. So I think the key that you said is as long as you're not trying to pass it off, no. If you copy somebody and pass yourself off as being that person, yeah. That would be the weird part. Right. But if what you're doing is taking that idea and creating from it.

Yep. And even if it looks similar to me, I'm like, go for it. Awesome. Wonderful. More art in the world. But your program under the influence is how I met you. That's the reason I knew who you were. And it must have been pre pandemic because it was a long time ago that you had reached out and and I thought that was really sweet that you asked for permission.

At first, I'm like, this is weird. Like, so they're gonna copy me in class and then I let go, and I'm like, no. They're studying somebody that they wanna learn from and then creating. And I almost was like, if I had time at the time, like, how can I help you? Is really, yeah. What my instinct ended up leaning to but I don't know what, after that I got so busy and then we didn't stay connected until now.

Full circle. And we are connected again. And I love that idea because you're, Master study. You go to art college, what are you doing? And I didn't go to university. I took art courses in university, but I didn't go to university and finish some fine art degree. But that's what you do. You go to the National Gallery of Art and people are literally, they're canvases are up copying bit by bit painting.

[00:30:47] Andrea Chebeleu: Right? Because that's how we learn. Exactly. And that's how we learn what we like by paying attention and noticing. And that's what I'm, that's all I'm doing. And under the influences, I'm, I'm like your tour guide. And I'm like, Ooh, notice this. Ooh, notice that I notice this. What do you notice? Yeah. And we have conversation around what other people noticed we do with this little tour of the Instagram feed and what did you notice?

What did you notice? And then we work on our own things and nobody's making exact, everybody's work looks so completely different. And yeah, there's the flavor, maybe we're using turmeric this time. Everybody's work comes out with a little bit of turmeric. Yeah. But it's just, it's fantastic.

[00:31:24] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. And even if you were to. Mimic a style of somebody you admire a lot and if you keep going, your own voice is gonna come out eventually. Absolutely. So if that's your starting point is one of my classes to create, much like I create. Great. Just keep going. Yeah. Until the iterations change and it becomes you.

Exactly. And that's my big pet peeve and I'm gonna like put my neck out right on the chopping block for this one. My big pet peeve with AI Art and everyone being up in arms against it. Before AI art people were stealing your images already. People were using your ideas already. And I made a decision when I went online with my art in the early, like around 20 10, 20 12, I started putting my art online everywhere.

And I was like, well, should I watermark it? Should I whatever? What if someone in China makes a rug out of my painting? And I just decided at that point, and I probably read an article that someone's like, let it go, you're not gonna stop it. You have to choose to be in fearful of your resource or believe that life is abundant.

Yeah. Those who are using AI art to mimic another artist weren't gonna go and buy that artist's art anyway. Nope. And so I know that a lot of people are like, but it's stealing, but it's really an iteration of somebody else's idea. Then evolving and evolving and evolving. And I'm not scared of AI Art I'm not scared of the digital world.

I'm really not scared of anything being stolen. I don't have the energy for that. No. There's enough for all of us.

[00:32:55] Andrea Chebeleu: There is enough, and I tend to want to reserve my energy for just making more new, cool things and helping more people make new, cool things. That's right. That's right.

[00:33:03] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That's really all I care about. There's enough for me. I don't feel like my brand is diluted by. And I see some artists in our industry like Art Goodwin, who is actually using the AI art. I saw that advantage and it's unbelievable. That was so cool. I know. And she's like, yeah, I'm taking the balance between the. Problematic. It is problematic that you can just say, make me a painting in Van Gogh style. And it looks just like Van Gogh, but it's not Van Gogh's art. Right? And you can do that with modern living artists. I get that. There is some problematic to it, but we can't stop it now, so why worry about it? Right?

So she's embracing it and turning her own ideas into new ideas, and it's like, what? It's so cool. That could be really fascinating. Right. All right, so anyone who's listening, who's an AI Art Expert. Please reach out to me cuz I'd love to have a discussion with you about it. For sure. For sure. Or even chat. G p T is my new obsession. I'm like, I can write a little less by letting chat g p t do it.

Have you ever put into chat G P T, like I did this one day. I'm like, write a bio for Kelly W. Conrad. That's all I said. Brand new chat and it knew who I was enough to write a bio. Things are gonna change and evolve and we have no control over it, so let's just get more into the heart of, let's just write into the whole point of it.

[00:34:24] Andrea Chebeleu: The whole point of it is to be creative. Yeah. Connect with our creative self and express that and bring joy. Right.

[00:34:33] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah, not in competition with everybody. There's so much space for us all to be creating, to be creating courses, to create workshops, to create summits, to create retreats in far off places.

There's more than enough because there's 8 billion people and no one ever stops and says, but somebody's already created that restaurant. Yes. How many Italian restaurants are there? Right? How much cooking food restaurants are there? And can we have more? Yes. More tacos please. Always, no one gets tired of tacos and no one's gonna get tired of your art either if you just keep showing up.

Exactly. I would think too, like the gym trainer, like, oh, but there's already so many art courses. I'm like, and there are already so many gyms and gym trainers, and yet we still seem to need them because go full circle to the beginning. It's part of self-care.

[00:35:20] Andrea Chebeleu: Absolutely. And that's my soapbox. Right. I'm gonna step up on that soapbox. Every time people start talking to me about, it looks like you do so much. I'm like, no, I do. Just enough. I'm the girl who's gonna be like, okay, how much work do I have to do to get a B, because that's what I want. Right? And then I'm like, I'm not gonna work.

[00:35:39] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. My kids who, who come to me and they're like, mom sees get degrees, so layoff. I'm like, okay, fine. Yeah, I got over the perfectionism a long time ago so that we can just enjoy more of the process

[00:35:52] Andrea Chebeleu: I did in certain areas of my life, and then it popped up in other areas. I'm like, wait, I didn't think I was a perfectionist. My trainer actually was. Was it relaying that to her? How my therapist was like, was that a surprise to you that you just found out that you were a perfectionist? I'm like, yes. I keep calling because in my art, I'm an imper perfectionist. Close enough, good enough.

It's fine. Not about the perfectionism, and then it pops up in other areas of my life. I'm like, dog got it. I thought I'd invaded you. You trick a little sneaker

[00:36:22] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Like especially showing up online where I keep saying it doesn't matter. Just show up as yourself. It doesn't have to be a perfect picture, and yet here I am.

Well, my hair and makeup's not done today, so I guess I'm not going online. And I'm like, what is going on?

[00:36:38] Andrea Chebeleu: I do the same thing until I don't, you'll go back and you'll see some of my m my YouTube, I do an intro every week for the lessons that are going into my membership. And my web designer pulled one of those videos just randomly and I'm like, I don't think, I don't think my hair is done. I'm like, I don't care really. She picked it and she thought it was fine, and I'm like, okay. I guess I'm just too self-conscious about it,

[00:37:00] Kellee Wynne Conrad: well, part of that has to do with, I'm gonna hate myself for saying this, but for age. And I keep thinking, oh no, but I'm still like just 32 years old, right?

But no, because I hit the big five oh this year and I'm like always thinking well now there's wrinkles and did you see that? Oh, my neck,

[00:37:18] Andrea Chebeleu: I cannot wait. I cannot wait to grow into the old crone, like the wise old woman that everybody's like, oh, go ask Andrea, she'll know I cannot wait. So I'm, I'm all like, bring it on.

Bring on that old wise woman. She's in me, she's been in me the whole time. Right? Me too. And it's, and honestly, those are the people I admire the most. Right. Why am I having a hard time with it? I don't know. Like I can't wait till I'm totally white. My hair is, Very gray, but I'm like, oh, I can't wait till it's totally white.

[00:37:49] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. I, I need to let go a little bit more of that. Um, and you're right. Society may have something to do with that or. Especially what we see other people doing on Instagram. It doesn't have to be that way. And so maybe I'll challenge myself to just let go a lot more.

[00:38:06] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah. Right. And what a vision that is for other people. I discount how showing up imperfect and. As I am, making mistakes and being like, well, next time I do this, I'll try it differently. I discount the gift that gives actually other people. Mm-hmm. To be able to, well, if she can show up imperfectly and she shares that, then I have permission to do the same thing.

So we think about when we do something like that and we are transparent and vulnerable and it's scary. Right? And, and we're afraid of judgment, but we do it anyway. Like, that's such a gift to other people to show them that. I, I can do that too.

[00:38:44] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Instead of always the perfectly poised photos.

Cleverly written captions and the, and I think that might be why I hit a wall this week of like, I am so bored of Instagram. I'm so support of social media, there's gotta be a better solution.

It's been the best tool for building a business, but I'm not mad at it. I'm not even begrudging how it is, even though they wanna roll out this pay for your blue tick thing that I'm like, you can take your blue check mark and shove it. Sorry. But, It's really just, I'm bored of it.

I'm just like, yeah, it's so repetitive now and we're not being very clever and maybe you just struck on something. It's because I'm not allowing myself to just show what mm-hmm. What real is, what Insta is, not what's, yeah. Pre-planned and curated. Right. So, I'm gonna take that as a little nudge honest to God people like get.

Tired, blurry eyed at seven, and I sit on the couch with the dogs and wave goodbye to my family while I drink coffee and post on social media to like nine or 10 o'clock in the morning before I'm actually like moving. And that is really boring and lazy, but who wants to see that? All right, fine. Maybe more dogs.

[00:39:55] Andrea Chebeleu: Well, maybe more people that feel like they're boring, lazy existence, and they're like, I bet Kelly Winn's mornings are just magical. I bet she's just, they're gonna feel like, oh, She's just a normal person too. I kid you. Not big creators. I'm thinking, man, they must just have everything all lined up.

They must have like all of this stuff, right? And then you're like, oh, they're human too. Like just, it's endearing. I think it's endearing and I've definitely done the shots of my, my studio is a hot mess. It's not one of those curated like, really beautiful ones, which I love.

I adore looking at them. Mine is very functional. It's not mine aesthetic, but man, everything is within my reach.

[00:40:37] Kellee Wynne Conrad: All right, so then for this podcast post in the show notes, we should both have a picture of our messy studio. How's that?

[00:40:46] Andrea Chebeleu: Are you kidding me? Yeah. Oh, yikes. Don't move anything. Okay.

[00:40:50] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. As soon as we're done talking, we'll just take a picture of how we, oh, my God.

With all the stuff I piled on the floor from the last project I did. I know that is so scary. But I will do it for you. Okay. At least we don't have to show us messy hair to no makeup on the couch in the morning. I know, right? I didn't push for that yet.

[00:41:11] Andrea Chebeleu: I showed my couch the other day, just not me on the couch. I was like, I'm glad that my art can go to the couch with me as I'm recouping from this bug.

[00:41:20] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I'm glad you're recovering quick enough that, that you're I know right back. Yeah. Nasty thing that it is, but don't let it stop you from living your life to everyone who's listening. We have to just get back out there and do things now

We have a little bit more time. I wanna talk more about you and your plans and your future and your vision, like with a work of Heart Studio and how you wanna keep teaching and encouraging this passion that you have. Getting people to make art for themselves and be creative.

[00:41:52] Andrea Chebeleu: Oh, I always say, more of this. Yes, please. And thank you. Mm-hmm. So definitely I have four more years on, the lease here in San Jose at the 1 76 Race Street, a work of heart, the building that it's in. I would love to. Pass that along to somebody. I would love somebody to come in and be like, I want to occupy 1 76 race Street in San Jose.

So I'd love to sell it because our big plan is to eventually, be up in the northwest. All three of my kids landed in Seattle. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So I have three adult kids in Seattle and we have property up there as well. I wanna build a retreat center. All of my kids are, creative and artists and makers and all of that.

So I wanna build some big property where we can have all of our fun geeky equipment. My husband's in laser, you know, we have lasers and, 3D printers and my son is a, mechanical engineer as well. And my, oh, other kids are, builders and potters, my daughter's a potter. So anyway, we're gonna build a big retreat center in Seattle area.

Mm-hmm. And, would love to host retreats. There and be able to just do my art and continue to teach online. Yeah. And, um, and then host retreats in that space. So that is the goal. That's the dream. That's the trajectory. That's what we're manifesting right now. I've been in the Bay Area in, the commercial spaces that I've been in for 20 some odd years.

So it's come into the end of where I wanna be really tied to a physical space all the time. That's, got a doors that open and. Right. You're paying rent rather than owning. Exactly. Exactly. And San Jose isn't exactly the cheapest place to be anyway. No, it's not. It's not now. Now that the, you know, Seattle area is either but yeah

[00:43:41] Kellee Wynne Conrad: well, I love the Pacific Northwest and I have family in Bellingham, so there's no doubt that I'll be up to the Pacific Northwest to join you in your fun adventures while I create something on the East Coast, cuz that's almost the same dream my husband and I have. He has a big like, in the most lovable, cool way.

A big nerd. Yes. And all my boys are too. Like all, oh, nerd dragon nerd. They're the best. Yes. He would love to have a creative business. Right now he works for the government, but he would love to have a creative business as well. We're looking at Early retirement forum. And that's exciting to me.

We'll still be young enough to be gallivanting around the world and doing fun things and having a adventures. Yes, east Coast and West Coast then there you go. I love that. That's a good big audacious stream.

[00:44:30] Andrea Chebeleu: Yep, it's a good one. And it's like every day, I like, Think about it. It's like this dream that I take out and I'm like, oh, what would it look like and what, and that's how I've done all of my business from now. It's always been pen to paper. Dreaming big. Mm-hmm. Big, bigger, biggest, right? Like what? Writing it down. Oh my goodness.

That's such a huge part of my practice is Yeah. Into paper and, and all of my dreams come out of that and they all manage to manifest and just yeah. Become our work, but vision and knowing and speaking for sure. Out into the world. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:45:08] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love that. So this year you have, well, I'm inviting you on to Deck of Dreams.

So for those who know, my Color Crush creative side of my business is all about art. And a lot of it is my courses, but I'm really trying to transition to showcase a lot of other people. And I have my deck of dreams and I just asked Andrea to come and join. So this fall you'll see her teaching a class there and you're gonna continue on with, You are highlighting other artists in your teaching?

[00:45:36] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah, so I do under the Influence quarterly, so there's four quarters this year. I'm getting ready to start, Q2 at the beginning of May. And, then Q3 and q4 right. Every. Quarter. We have two months of classes, so they're nine week series, and I bring on different artists that we feature every time.

And then my mixed media membership is called Watch, learn, play, and Oh, awesome. Watch, learn, play is just bite size, little sort of snack size mixed media lessons. When I created that, I was like, This is how I consume content. I want to see it really short. Mm-hmm. You too. And just get the seed of the idea and then I'm gonna run with it.

And so that's how I design it's just whatever is in front of me, what I'm excited about, what techniques I wanna try. They're short. Sweet. I do a lot of things with mixed media prompts, and so a lot of my work is done just by pulling a prompt card. Like some people would pull a card, a different kind of card, right?

I'm like, pull a prompt card. Where are we gonna start today? Oh, collage. Okay, we're gonna start there, right? So, watch, learn. Play is a full membership that has a huge library of all these little short lessons and. There's live content there too. We have, weekly, office hours where we check in and it's just co-working time, which is really fun.

It's where I get all my good Netflix and Hulu recommendations, like, what should I watch next? Yeah. And then the third Friday of the month, we have a live class, and then quarterly I do retreats in there. So it's a fun. That is awesome.

[00:47:06] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love that idea too, because life is busy and we need something quick that we can Yes.

Then in memberships, if you feel like you're behind and there's all these big projects, you're never gonna get to it. But to know that you can just jump in and just learn a few new things to add to your arsenal of mixed media techniques. It's like super fun and easy though.

[00:47:26] Andrea Chebeleu: Yeah, it's perfect to just sit with your cup of coffee on the couch in the morning.

Watch a little lesson. And we go on today. Yeah.

[00:47:33] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And the next time you're in your studio, you can studio, kitchen table. Wherever it is. Wherever it is. I have this full studio of space. It's just a bedroom upstairs, and I'm lucky for that. It's not fancy. Mine is like yours. It's not fancy. One day. I want like a barn size studio for sure. But. I don't come here to create that much except for when I'm teaching. So I bring stuff downstairs now where I can hang out with the family, play with the dogs, listen to a podcast, and then I want like you like some couch crafts, still stuff that I can then put into my artwork later, and I've been working on that extreme layering idea, which is one of the lessons that we're gonna do at your studio.

Yeah. Look, now I'll just make sure everybody is following you at,

a work of Heart Studio. Mm-hmm. A work of heart studio on Instagram. Yeah. And of course, we're gonna have all the links and every little bit of connection that they need in the show notes so everyone can find Andrea and, It's been awesome.

I'm gonna have you back on again, maybe closer to September when you are a guest, but maybe just have you regularly so we can just chat for fun week. Oh, we can definitely think of lots of things to talk about. I, I have a feeling, no doubt. And when I come to visit her, everyone who's listening, don't be jealous, but we gonna be going to the big antique thing.

What's it called?

[00:48:54] Andrea Chebeleu: AntiquesBy the Bay. Or lovingly known as the Alameda Flea market. Yeah. But everything there has to be 25 years old or older to be at the show. So it's, old stuff, but then it, we start feeling really old when like the Garfield telephone is there and we're like, oh, but wait, didn't I have that as a kid?

Does that mean I'm old? Yes. Yes. Scooby-Doo.

[00:49:14] Kellee Wynne Conrad: The nineties. Yes. We need, it's from the nineties. It's old enough to be in the antique show. Hey, go Power old crones United. I know, right? Yeah. Awesome.

[00:49:25] Andrea Chebeleu: I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, it's gonna be so fun.

[00:49:29] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Thank you so much. Until next time.

[00:49:31] Andrea Chebeleu: All right. Thank you, Kelly.

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