Ditch Perfectionism and Get Messy with Caylee Grey

[00:00:00] Kellee: Well, hello. Hello, my creative friends, all you visionaries, change makers, disruptors. This is Kellee Wynne and the Made Remarkable podcast where we talk to remarkable people doing remarkable things, living remarkable lives. and you may just be among them because I believe that we are all made remarkable and we have gifts to give this world.

[00:00:29] Kellee: And so exploring those who have done these things hopefully will put a little spark in your mind and light your heart up on fire so that you know. Your potential is just as great and just as important in this world, and that is why we called the podcast Made remarkable. So listen, I have a really big announcement this Friday.

[00:00:54] Kellee: I open up applications to my brand new program. Now this isn't like anything [00:01:00] else that's really out there right now for the creative industry is specifically for artists and creatives who. The leaders in their industry, the visionaries, the change makers, and serving other creatives and artists. And I'm really, really excited about this because it's been about two years in the making to really finally pull together a this idea and to tap into a need for all of you out there who maybe have started a, a business. Maybe you've gotten your feet off the ground and you've gotten it going and you're like, ah, now what? I'm ready to move forward. 

[00:01:43] Kellee: I wanna do amazing things. I wanna reach thousands of people. I wanna be able to a beautiful business around the lifestyle that I live and I wanna bake it profitable. How do I do that? How do I take it to that next [00:02:00] level? I've already got the foundation in and it's already making sense to me. The basics. Maybe you have a course, maybe you have a creative program, maybe you're a coach, maybe you're a content creator and you've really come up with a lot of fabulous ideas, but you're like, I'm throwing spaghetti against sa wall.

[00:02:18] Kellee: How can I make this stick? How can I make it reach more people and bring in a healthy. Generous, well-deserved income. Well, guess what? I'm bringing you the remarkable league, and I am quite freaking proud of it. I am so excited to tell you that this is just, this is it. This is gonna be a really amazing journey, and I'm only opening it up to a couple dozen people at this time because it's new, it's special, and it's a collaborative mastermind group coaching type of a program. So it's a little high level. 

[00:02:57] Kellee: Don't worry. For all of you who haven't quite started your [00:03:00] business yet, and you're new at this as something really great coming for you at the end of summer, and it'll be just what you need to get that kickstart that jump off the ground. But for the rest of you who've already begun and you are. Itching to do more. If you really want that collaboration and community, then the remarkable league is gonna be the place that you want to go. So this Friday, the application's open. There'll be an explanation of all of that, and then next week I'm gonna announce an opportunity for you to meet with me. Talk to me. 

[00:03:33] Kellee: We're gonna do a group coaching session. I'm going to put some ideas in your mind about how we can do things differently here in 2023. All right? So if that sounds right to you and you're not wanting to wait until Friday, just jump in my dms. Just come to Kellee Wynne Studios and come chat with me.

[00:03:51] Kellee: Just say, Hey, I'm, this sounds like it might be right up my alley and, and let's have a convers. . I'm open to that. Okay. In the [00:04:00] meantime, I have an amazing interview for you today with my friend Caylee Grey. In fact, this conversation just touched my heart and left me in awe because of who she is and how she shows up.

[00:04:14] Kellee: There's something very special about Caylee and the community that she built with the Get Messy Art Journal. Membership, and I've been friends with her for a while when she asked me in 2018 to be a guest artist and teach in her community. So the Get Messy the Art Journal's been around quite a while. 

[00:04:34] Kellee: You guys, in fact, I've heard. I think next year is their 10 year anniversary. Now, how's that for longevity in art business? And that's what makes Caylee remarkable. That and the fact that she didn't really plan all of this. She followed her intuition. She showed up and she did the thing, and then she did the next thing and the next step and next thing you know, here she is with this really beautiful, [00:05:00] thriving, remarkable business.

[00:05:03] Kellee: So I think you're gonna. Enjoy today. If you don't know Caylee, she is a amazing artist from South Africa and she lives in Germany now, and her whole philosophy is about getting messy ditching perfectionism, staying accountable. And consistently creating art, which I think is the reason why get Massy art journals thriving.

[00:05:32] Kellee: All right. Enough of me talking. I think it's time for us to start this conversation. So introducing Caylee Grey. Oh my goodness. I have my good friend Caylee on, and we're chatting today after not having had a chance to connect in like a year. So I'm so happy to see your. How are you doing? 

[00:05:54] Caylee: Yeah, I'm doing well, and I think this is a really nice, sneaky way for us to chat.[00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] Kellee: There you go. It's given us a chance to finally reconnect and catch up with all of the crazy things that we've been up to, and you're in a new studio, which I am gonna just confess right now. I'm completely jealous of this. This big, gorgeous office with enough space to do everything you need to do to run a business.

[00:06:20] Caylee: Yeah, lots and lots of space and there's a chair for you. Okay. I will come visit. I got spare discs and spare chase. 

[00:06:27] Kellee: I wanna come, I wanna come in the wintertime when all of the Christmas markets are up though. Oh, 

[00:06:32] Caylee: it's good. Germany is good and yeah, Christmas time is where it, where it's at. 

[00:06:37] Kellee: I love it. I haven't been to I, I did get a chance to visit Germany when I lived in Belgium and I just was always felt home there. Compared to the rest of Europe because there's a lot of like culturally similar ways that Germans are to Americans maybe. Yeah, I guess that's how you can say it. I loved, I loved it and plus it's [00:07:00] gorgeous land, so. Yep. Well 

[00:07:02] Caylee: you've got a house to stay out when you come in. 

[00:07:04] Kellee: Thank you. Well, why don't, why aren't you just tell me a little bit like, cuz I kind of know the story, but you're from South Africa and you ended up in Germany. And I'd love to hear, I'd love for the listeners to hear how this transformation happened, like how you ended up here, and then how you started this fabulous online art business that everybody just loves and adores . 

[00:07:31] Caylee: Um, well we were, we were in South Africa. My husband's an engineer and he got invited to come to Germany for training. So we did that in 2013. And in 2013 it was literally illegal for me to work. And so we kind of made the joke that. I was retired, I think I was 25 then. Yeah. . Oh, I was retired at 25. Um, and [00:08:00] I thought I would fill my days with all the things that I ever wanted to do, and, you know, I'd have time, I finally have time for them.

[00:08:08] Caylee: And I very quickly realized I had no interests at all. . I, there was nothing that I could pull my day with, days with. And so, I got to thinking and I was like, well, I've always really wanted to try Art , . I always wanted to just have a little bit of creativity, but the problem was that I was not actively creating at all.

[00:08:36] Caylee: Just no creating, I'd never thought of myself as creative. Um, I wasn't raised in a family that was creative. You know, my mom's a professor. My dad's a builder, like very logical. Normal, normal , but logical uncreative people. Um, and yeah, so that's, we got to Germany with [00:09:00] that. Uh, we went back to South Africa.

[00:09:03] Caylee: I, in that year, started dabbling in project life and then we both got a Oh yeah. Worried with, with that kind of creating, uh, and that was my very low pressure. Being artistic. It's through the very, um, regimented form of project life. You know, there are a lot of, 

[00:09:27] Kellee: uh, was Project Life a Allie Edwards? Who did?

[00:09:32] Caylee: Becky Higgins. Becky Becky. Becky Higgins. She's not around as much. She was very big 

[00:09:38] Kellee: thing. She's not, but Ali Edwards was on the podcast just a couple weeks. 

[00:09:42] Caylee: Oh, I love, I love her. 

[00:09:44] Kellee: I know. So it's that whole world that we were really connected with. 

[00:09:48] Caylee: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Uh, and thanks. I think scrapbooking and project life and memory keeping in general is such a low pressure way [00:10:00] to enter into creativity until it's not until you start putting all types of pressure on yourself.

[00:10:06] Caylee: Right. But, um, that was my entry. Then we went back to South Africa and I didn't have any, , it was much more difficult to get art supplies when you don't have Amazon, when you don't have art stores around, when you don't have the European, uh, producer suppliers, you know, in South Africa we are very far away, uh, and there was very limited art supplies and definitely limited scrapbooking supplies, and so I became a bit more creative with how.

[00:10:35] Caylee: With the, with the supplies that I was using and very gently, I started adding art supplies and, uh, a bit of paint here and there, and a bit of collage all very softly. And it was while we were in South Africa that a friend and I decided we wanna be accountable to making art. So my business story and my [00:11:00] creative story is so intertwined, like, , it's very difficult for me to separate the two and I think it gives it a, a nice little romance in my head.

[00:11:09] Caylee: But a friend of mine and I decided, you know, we wanna be artists, but step one to be an artist is actually make Art . And we decided 

[00:11:20] Kellee: to make note everyone the step one, make art. 

[00:11:26] Caylee: We decided to be accountable to sharing, I think it was two pages in the art journal every week on our blocks. Very low stakes. Uh, art journaling in general is a very low pressure form of creating. It was just the right, it was just perfect for me at that time. We shared it on the blog, and that said, the first time we shared, someone said, ah, can I join in? I'm gonna do this challenge too. And so we said, yeah, okay. Do that. And eventually it ended up being, I think it was 50 people [00:12:00] when we capped it, that we were doing a blog hop and.

[00:12:04] Caylee: We decided, you know what? Maybe we need a special place for this, and we are just going to create, we called it a private blog. It was on blog spot, which is ridiculous, and I figured out, I think it was E junkie. It was the most ridiculous setup. I was really just starving head first, not knowing what I'm doing, figuring it out along the way, and we charged full lifetime access to anything that we'd create in the future.

[00:12:32] Caylee: Well, not anything but anything in Get messy. Uh, and then 500 people joined and so we're like, oh, , there's somethings here. You know? And then 

[00:12:45] Kellee: what year was that when you did that first? 

[00:12:49] Caylee: 2014. 

[00:12:50] Kellee: 2014. So Get Messy is like one year away from its 10 year anniversary. 

[00:12:57] Caylee: I know I'm already . [00:13:00] I'm already 

[00:13:01] Kellee: Well, I wanna hear the get messy. Um, how you came. Do you just like, it's felt instinctive to come up with that name because I love the name and I love the motto behind it. It makes so much sense for artists or even non-artists to wanna get involved. 

[00:13:19] Caylee: So the, the name is kind of like a battle cry because I am not a naturally messy person, and I think it could be because of my very logical upbringing or very, I was very focused on maths and science, and those were my subjects at school.

[00:13:38] Caylee: Um, I did economics at university, you know, very logical person, and I've always. Tactile and mental problems with, with paint or like getting messy . And so it was, it was a very much a challenge just in the name itself is getting messy, letting go. I don't want to do any of that, you know, [00:14:00] naturally it's not something that I naturally do.

[00:14:03] Caylee: And so, um, but I know that that's where the magic is. And I know that when I let go and when, like the painting behind you when you get messy and when. access that more intuitive side of the south. There's so much magic in beauty there, right? 

[00:14:21] Kellee: Like yeah. That getting over the perfectionism or trying to control how it's gonna go.

[00:14:30] Kellee: Mm-hmm. . So it's almost like the name of the business itself was a mantra to yourself. 

[00:14:35] Caylee: Oh yeah, for sure. And it's also been helpful. You know, not only with art, but in business two, if I make a mistake, well, not if I make a mistake, when I make the mistakes in business on a daily basis, it's, it's fun, you know?

[00:14:52] Caylee: Yeah. I remind myself that I'm lucky enough to have a creative business and creative people, probably because they're making [00:15:00] art. They're much more mentally stable, and so they tend to be kinder when you make mistakes. It just, it worked. 

[00:15:09] Kellee: Yes, I agree. I've actually found the community overall is quite a beautiful community, kind people, and I rarely come across any, any friction to say the least.

[00:15:22] Kellee: I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen, but it is just really so nice to know that, you know, the horror stories I hear in other businesses, I don't find to be a challenge within the art community. Um, and I love too, you've set the expectations that there aren't expectations. , right? Is that we're going to just enjoy the process.

[00:15:47] Kellee: So you started a, you kinda like. Ju jury rigged together a site to make it work and figured it out. Cause this is kind of before [00:16:00] everything was really easy. Now we have cajabi and teachable and, and everything. Like you can just open up and have that paywall and have it all organized and it's all so like a million times easier to start an online business.

[00:16:13] Kellee: Squarespace and everything, my first website. was also blog Spot , and I figured out, I'm like, I don't have to make it just a blog. There are tabs and I can put my art here and I can put a PayPal button and everything. Like, so I used Blogspot as well as a way to like try to just get online at the lowest price point possible, you know, and with what was po I mean, that was in 20 12, 20 10 probably, that I did that.

[00:16:42] Kellee: So yeah, I mean, we didn't. So many amazing, easy, simple options like we do now . So that's, well, you just got it going. 

[00:16:52] Caylee: Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, when people, when people ask for business advice, they always want to ask, [00:17:00] what's the best platform to be on? What's the best this? And it really doesn't matter.

[00:17:05] Caylee: Yeah. Because you'll figure it out even if you. the worst option. You'll figure it out and you can change whenever you feel like it. It's gonna be extra work, but it'll be fun and you'll learn something. 

[00:17:17] Kellee: Yeah. And there isn't one perfect platform for everyone because mm-hmm. , I know people who pick one and I'm like, that does, doesn't click for me the way it's set up or what I want it to do because every business has different objectives within the creative realm, whether, I mean, if you're selling.

[00:17:33] Kellee: Product, you need a different platform than if you're selling courses and there's just, if you want a membership versus, you know, how tech are you. Like, so yeah, I agree. People always ask about the tech first. When they don't realize that there are so many other things that are so important about building the business.

[00:17:51] Kellee: Like where's the heart and soul of the business? What's your full objective? Who are you gonna serve? How are you gonna show up? How are you gonna connect people? Have you figured that part out? [00:18:00] Because then the rest of it, you can, whatever happens, happens, just get your iPhone and start recording. Who cares?

[00:18:06] Kellee: But it's the heart of it that people always forget. And when I get questions from artists, like, how do I do this? How do I do that? I. Where is, where's your start place? Like what's the more important part? So I love that you call your business master business plan a romantic story because it fell into it.

[00:18:29] Kellee: But I know that you've made it. A beautiful business, and I know you're, you're good at planning and that you actually have vision for it and you've been able to grow it. And I've loved, I'm very jealous of your one week away every fall so that you can plan the next year. I have, I have always planned, but I've never taken a week away until last year.

[00:18:50] Kellee: At the end of the year, I did take a week away to do it, and I'm like, so doing it, the Kaylee Gray Method from now on . [00:19:00] 

[00:19:00] Caylee: Where did you go? 

[00:19:02] Kellee: Well, I went with a group down to Florida and then I stayed extra time for planning and um, and it was a planning retreat, so it was nice because in December, Florida is, is cooler temperatures.

[00:19:17] Kellee: and I don't like, cuz I don't like it hot. So it was like just perfect for me. I'm like, okay, I can do Florida in the wintertime, but that's it. . Yeah. But it was really nice to get away and then just map out the entire plan. How did, how did get, I mean, eventually you figured out WordPress and created your own site.

[00:19:34] Kellee: Mm-hmm. and then continued to grow, get messy. You wanna hear about it, , I wanna know how you figured it all out for yourself and when, I actually would love for you to talk about when that switch happened in your head that this is more than just a nice thing to do, a fun thing to do, or a a little side thing.

[00:19:56] Kellee: When did it switch to you like, this is a legitimate business and we're, [00:20:00] I'm ready to go full force? Hmm. And I know that there were bumps in the road along the way of making that decision too . 

[00:20:06] Caylee: Yes. Yes. I think it's been. Continuous. It's been a repeated thing. We have gone, oh, this is something, this is something, this is something.

[00:20:16] Caylee: Uh, the first time happened when we opened it up, we didn't know if even one person would give us money, and then we 500 people did, and we were like, oh, oh, cool. That was the first time. Then, um, when it replaced my. , but that was pretty early on because I was in South Africa and exchange rates are fantastic.

[00:20:39] Caylee: Uh, then when my business partner at the time quit her full-time job, then we knew, then we knew something. You know, that was because it was a very big decision. Um, and when she left as well, we kind of, because we had started the. Um, [00:21:00] with, with Hot really, and just fell into it and figured it along the way.

[00:21:05] Caylee: When we were hit to a hundred thousand in a year, she said, this is amazing. Like, let's slow down. And I was like, what? Why would we slow down? This is amazing. Let's reach more people. Let's do it bigger. Let's do it better, let's. help people more. You know, and it was not, neither was right or wrong, but it was just a difference. It, it got me ready for more, you know?

[00:21:34] Kellee: Right. You were thinking more business minded, not hobby minded. and, and yes, I agree with you on that whole idea is, is that you can impact more people, but there's also a beautiful thing about making a healthy income because when you have a healthy income, you can impact more people as well.

[00:21:53] Kellee: Mm-hmm. . So, yeah. Yeah. So she wasn't, she didn't have the same vision that you did. That's [00:22:00] like, everyone has a different, like comfort zone and some of us have bigger ceilings to break through, but you obviously were like, no, I want, I want get messy to be the destination for all people who wanna be creative. So that led to a split in the business. 

[00:22:17] Caylee: Yes. So, well that was maybe the start of it because she left. I'm thinking about timelines shift a little bit after that, but that was kind of the beginning where it was, oh, for me, this is, um, for me, get me is, hmm, like 50 50 art in business or, I don't know, maybe 51% business, but for her it was more.

[00:22:44] Caylee: Art. And, and then I think if you have the focus only on the art or majority on the art, then it becomes more difficult when you have business issues that you have to deal with. Or, uh, if your creative practice has gone down, how [00:23:00] are you gonna keep the business going? Because as much as you nurture your own creative bus, your own creative practice, sometimes your inspiration's gone.

[00:23:08] Caylee: Sometimes you just. Nothing inside of you for creating. Um, and then I think that's, that's important to, to figure out how to keep going. 

[00:23:21] Kellee: Yeah. And also sometimes the business really does require a lot from you, so you don't even have time or the space to think about creativity because building a business in and of itself is incredibly creative.

[00:23:35] Kellee: So, yeah, so you have that personality. And I really wanna emphasize this for the listeners cuz I've had this question so many times. I wanna make this into a business, but I'm afraid it's gonna take over and how much time I'm gonna have to spend on the VI business will I even have time for making art?

[00:23:50] Kellee: But if you're not ready to give over more than 50% of your time to the business building, you're probably gonna get, you're gonna have an expensive hobby. So you have to decide if you just [00:24:00] wanna make. for the sake of making art and not make a business. Or if you are passionate also about business making because it's gonna take both sides of you to build something up.

[00:24:10] Kellee: You know? So, you know, and that's where you came into this like pathway, this merging point of, okay, we have two different directions to go. Do we just stay artists that have a side hustle or are we building a business? And art then becomes our feeder into the, the nurturing, into the bigger. And you had one vision, she had another.

[00:24:34] Kellee: Yeah. And that's okay. That's what I'm saying is that's okay. But then where do you go and when you have to make that decision, you wanted to go all the way. So now you're still right. 

[00:24:46] Caylee: Well, you want everyone to be there, fully hearted and fully committed, um, because you are determining your own destiny and you are determining your own living conditions.

[00:24:57] Caylee: And so you need to, like, it [00:25:00] goes back to what you were saying, it starts with the heart. That's where it starts. It doesn't matter all the logistics you are gonna figure out, but you need to know that, that you're in it and that you are, you're committed. , if you know exactly why you are doing it and you know, I mean, you don't need to articulate it.

[00:25:21] Caylee: Sometimes it's just a feeling, but you know that feeling, that's where you are gonna pull your energy from and that's how you're gonna keep going. Uh, and I freaking love you, Kelly, because you just there like it is and I've never heard anyone else say it. It maybe feels un like. Naughty to say , but it's so true.

[00:25:44] Caylee: A creative business is you can't just be creative. That's going to do nothing. That's gonna be an expensive hobby. 

[00:25:51] Kellee: I love it. . Yeah, I mean, it's true. You have to make a decision and it's okay to decide not to be in business. So I have a, you know, there's so many people who are like on the [00:26:00] fence, and they have this dream idea that you paint all day and make money, but really what you do is you paint one day and the rest of the time you work your ass off

[00:26:08] Kellee: I mean, that's really how it is during the week. In fact, I have many weeks where I don't paint at all because my priority is now the business, but that's because I'm passionate. I know people who can balance between the two better than I can. But you're right. It's like it's, it's nothing to shake a stick at the amount of work it takes to build a business, but it's exciting for me.

[00:26:29] Kellee: It's exciting. I know it's been exciting for you and I know you've had your ups and your downs, but like look at what you've done Kayleigh. It's amazing. 

[00:26:38] Caylee: Yeah, no, it feels good. Feels good. And the funny thing is, I think with business building, . I like the nonsense things. I like the, um, if someone has a problem and they want a solution, no one can find a solution.

[00:26:53] Caylee: I like finding that solution. Uhhuh. , and I like figuring out the technology and I like figuring out the [00:27:00] very admin related tasks. I just love it. I love 

[00:27:04] Kellee: it. I love the market. , that's my favorite part is the marketing brand strategy. The, the like. That part I like, I can just like dive into it all day long.

[00:27:18] Kellee: How am I gonna show up? How am I gonna serve? How am I gonna communicate? What's gonna be the, the, the next, like really off the wall, out of the box wild idea that I can have. I'm not talking about let me just shove something in somebody's face all the time. How can we make this a collaborative, exciting.

[00:27:36] Kellee: To, to get the word out there. Like, to me, that's, that's my favorite part about the business. So I, I turn the admin over to my team. I'm like, please don't make me answer another email, or write the data down or organize the, please know, . 

[00:27:55] Caylee: But I love it because even with you just talking about that, it makes me excited about [00:28:00] marketing and I hate marketing

[00:28:03] Kellee: Well, I think there needs to be a reframe about what marketing is. Yeah. You know, so that's the first step, which I'm kind of working on kind of getting that idea out there, especially for those who are already in business and are like, You know, why, why am I not making any money? Or why is this so hard?

[00:28:19] Kellee: It's because they haven't really thought about that forefront part on how they connect with their customer. And that can be fun if you allow it to be so. Mm-hmm. , I love the best part about marketing is getting your community involved, which your whole business model is based off of community and it's beautiful.

[00:28:38] Caylee: Yeah. Yeah. And see that's my sneaky way of doing marketing, right? It's just, um, getting. The to share and to do the marketing on my behalf. 

[00:28:51] Kellee: And that's brilliant. That's the best marketing that you can ever have, you know, is it, is it, um, Seth Godin [00:29:00] who talks about that a lot? To, to use your, whatever you can.

[00:29:04] Kellee: I don't know, there's so many marketing books I have piled over here. Contagious is one of 'em because it's like when something is so exciting that other people wanna talk about it, that's your best marketing right there. And everybody's always talking about get messy. So cuz your, cuz your community is very, involved and they have a community.

[00:29:26] Kellee: Having a community is really important when you're an artist. Anyway, that's why we started all this nonsense in the first place is because we felt alone and I was reading over Get Messi's Purpose and that was like the the va. The last thing in your list was you don't have to be alone Wolf anymore. 

[00:29:44] Caylee: Yep, yep.

[00:29:46] Caylee: Yeah, there's something. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just calling it magic. And every time I say magic, it, it irritates me because I would like to articulate it better, but when you mix art and community and people getting together, there's [00:30:00] just something that happens there. 

[00:30:04] Kellee: Yeah. That's amazing. So you are, Talking to me from your brand new studio, which means that get messi's grown quite a bit over the last few years and it's taken on a, on a less of a blog spot space and more of a.

[00:30:22] Kellee: More of a real foundational, um, I wanna say like a staple in the art community. So tell us more about where you're at now. Um, of course, as you mentioned, you did a transition and split, and now you're solo running it, I mean, solo owning it. You have support of course. And tell me like, just like how gi Messi's grown and maybe even what your vision is for it.

[00:30:51] Caylee: Well in, in terms of the business side of it, uh, I remember I set, I set the goal that I wanted to have a better [00:31:00] salary than my husband as an engineer. Um, and that, that goal, that was like my big goal, but I need to set big, bigger goals because that was, that happened pretty quickly. 

[00:31:14] Kellee: You say, that was my same goal.

[00:31:16] Kellee: I just wanna make more than my husband makes, which who already has a really good salary as well. Yeah. , you know, because he is been doing it for over 20 years, of course he has a good salary now. He is been working his ass off and he did help support me through this. But Mike, my goal was like, if I can make more than him, then he can breathe a little more easily. You know, I could help support him. And you're right. Like it's like what that happened. 

[00:31:43] Caylee: But it's like, it's, it's supporting him, but also it's a little bit, you know, people with practical jobs. And my husband's an engineer. It's very straightforward. It's, he's studied and then he did his honor and, and now he's got a job.

[00:31:59] Caylee: It's like [00:32:00] very linear, but a creative job is not linear. And so it feels really good to be, to say, , I don't know, to, to my dad. My mom basically like, look at, I can, I can do the same thing. You don't have to sit in a job. I mean, he loves his job. I wouldn't, but you don't need to sit in a job that you don't like just to get, uh, society's traditional idea of success. Uh, and so, yeah, so that's why I liked beating him . 

[00:32:32] Kellee: It's, it's a really great point. bringing up is that idea that there are so many non-traditional ways. Yeah, my husband did the same thing. It was a very traditional, linear job. And I know many people, that's what they just, they're taught in school that that's what you're supposed to do.

[00:32:51] Kellee: But I love breaking that mold. And that's what you've done. And so now where, where's your dream now? Like where do you want to take it? [00:33:00] 

[00:33:01] Caylee: Uh, my dream now, um, I don't, I don't have like a said thing. I would like for tea to be a stay-at-home dad. Uh, and maybe because I would love to work more . Just know that I've got a stay-at-home dad at home.

[00:33:21] Caylee: Um, 

[00:33:23] Kellee: okay. Come on. That is a really fun, funny thing that you say and I love it. And I just wanna point out that you said you wanna work more. I know , I love you so much for that because I feel like I'm the only one under the planet that's like, well, it's Saturday night and everybody else is watching TV or playing video games. I guess I get to work. I'm such a weirdo when it comes to that, so I'm glad I'm not alone. 

[00:33:53] Caylee: No. Yeah, we. , two peas on the pod there. I love, I honestly love working and I have to really put a [00:34:00] lot of measures in place to stop myself. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but 

[00:34:04] Kellee: yeah. Yeah, me too. That's cool. What I love, I love to ask, what is your big audacious dreams? So not just the regular dreams, but what's something like audacious is almost too scary to say publicly, and I'm gonna like push you to say it. . Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:24] Caylee: come. It's, I don't have, so I don't have a, a big future goal, but there are like little goals that are kind of less big, hairy, audacious goals and more, uh, to-do list items. I don't know. I think I need to dream bigger, but I won't get Missy branded supplies. I wouldn't, that's pretty big. . Yeah, I think this is not [00:35:00] financial. Uh, it's not a financial reason. I think they're making art supplies and having manufacturing, unless you are really, really big, I don't think there's a lot of money there compared to digital where, you know, your profit margins are very high com, you know, instead of physical items.

[00:35:16] Caylee: Um, but I'd just love to be in. like in a take up space, I guess I'm trying to say. So there's that one. Then I've also got a dream and I dunno how I'll work because the town that I live in is very old school. But I would love to have a creative co-working space where you can just come after work. Uh, just book a table for an hour and just use my supplies, make art.

[00:35:46] Kellee: I love that. It seems like your space is big enough. You could do that now. 

[00:35:51] Caylee: It is. I could. It is. It's a very big space. There's like more, they're more rooms. It just keeps going, [00:36:00] but I need to bring the, I need to bring the people. I need to figure it out. I'm figuring it out. 

[00:36:07] Kellee: Yeah. I love that. How far away are you from like the nearest big. , like somewhere someone could fly. Let's make it that clear because you know, I'm like thinking how do I get to Germany this year? . 

[00:36:23] Caylee: Well we having something in May. You are a small, a small something. That is something come in May. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I've got the chairs. . 

[00:36:37] Kellee: Okay. I'll bring, I'll bring my markers. That's, this is what I've been obsessed 

[00:36:43] Caylee: . Oh, I love that. You just picked them up and they're immediately your colors. Yeah. Well, so 

[00:36:48] Kellee: your colors . Of course. They're

[00:36:52] Caylee: Love it. 

[00:36:54] Kellee: Of course. They're, um, yeah. That's amazing. Like, I think that, I think, [00:37:00] you know what? 2020 was hard and into 2021 was so challenging to be shut down and locked down that I know we're craving community and we're crave craving, doing things in person and together. And so being able to facilitate that in really genuine ways is, is gonna make a huge difference moving forward.

[00:37:25] Kellee: I, I think that's a, it's honestly kind of more of a generous dream than it is. , you know, a personal dream because it's not easy facilitating, getting together in person, and it's not even really that financially lucrative in any way, shape, or form. It's just, just for the sake of having people together and being able to connect. 

[00:37:50] Kellee: Yeah. 

[00:37:51] Caylee: I think I've, I think I. At the moment with financial goals, um, I've got a specific one [00:38:00] for this year, but it is more of that, what, what can I call, like, uh, digging into the well and refilling my well kind of thing. I want to know what your vehicle is. 

[00:38:13] Kellee: Well, I've actually, I've made up public right here on the podcast that I'd like to generate a million dollars in a year. I'm willing to say it and I think it's possible, especially as I continue to grow and connect with more people and I have color crushed, creative, and now I have made remarkable so. and I have a small little team to help support me. It might not happen this year. In fact, it's most likely not gonna happen this year.

[00:38:44] Kellee: Well, I shouldn't say that because I do believe that the way you think and what you say comes back around. So I probably shouldn't say that, but I'm uncomfortable with whatever turns out this year. But I, I feel like though, that I'm like more like you. Like if I can grow it [00:39:00] bigger, that means I can connect with more people and serve more people, right?

[00:39:04] Kellee: and, and I like the idea of women being able to build creative businesses and make them financially lucrative. Why not? I know that when I make more money, I'm able to not just support my family, but like then I can support my team. I have people who work for me now, um, my close friend now and assistant who's making more now than she ever used to, and I love that I can provide.

[00:39:32] Kellee: Income for other people's families to thrive. I mean, like that's exciting to me. So I don't know. So yeah, that's my big aud, financial audacious dream. I have a list because I turned 50 at the end of this year, and I've been checking it off a little bit. Slowly, slowly but surely, but there's still a few things.

[00:39:51] Kellee: I really admire your ability to continue to work on yourself. and I think about that [00:40:00] often, like especially when you post your vision boards and your goal setting and, and how you've worked with coaches and stuff. And I'm like, okay, like I've made some personal growth, but what I really need is more healthy mindset and those boundaries about around the business.

[00:40:16] Kellee: Cause I do love to work so much, but I still need to exercise, sleep better. I make time for family, but I don't make time for me. So I think that would probably be my priority this year. So I mean, in all honesty, how do you tell, tell us, have a little bit of a discussion about that, on that point of view of how you've gone about, how you've gone about setting that up for yourself and being aware and like, I know it's not always perfect every year, but I'd love to hear more about how you do that.

[00:40:48] Caylee: Yeah, I've got my vision board Rock next to me. Let me take you off. So this is a vision board, um, and it's a good summary and I [00:41:00] kind of just leave it in the background. I'm not actively working on it or anything like that. Uh, I just leave it in the background and then the universe does its thing. And I think that it's the same as your big goal, right?

[00:41:16] Caylee: What we say and what we put out there influences. how it comes back. And again, it's a little bit woo. Like all these things are a little bit w but they, but they work. Yeah. Uh, and so 1 million is also big goal for me and t t yeah. The other day said, if Get messy gets a million. And I was like, no, no. When, when Get Missy gets a million in a year, you can.

[00:41:47] Caylee: I don't know. I think encouraging it and acting like these things I hear is the good way, uh, to do it. And I'm very process driven because [00:42:00] I can't, I can't really impact the end result that the end result's gonna be, whatever it's going to be. But I can impact all the tiny little bits that go into that end result. So if I'm looking at my vision board,

[00:42:18] Caylee: I'm not gonna be able to, I would like to be strong. Okay. That's one of my big goals for this year. Last year my body was not strong. It was in recovery. Uh, previous year I was strong and, and so it's such a vague thing. So I know for me, being strong means going into the gym, lifting heavy weights. It makes me feel good.

[00:42:42] Caylee: Um, I've never been someone who. , like, I'm not good at running and I'm not good at being scared into a goal. So if I know that I can just focus on, on the thing in the middle, then that's good for me. Same with my art, same with my [00:43:00] business. If I know that I'm focusing on meeting the messian where they're at, uh, helping them in their creative practice, then I know that by itself.

[00:43:11] Caylee: Stressing too much get me. He's gonna grow. Like people are gonna stay longer, people are gonna talk about it better. More people are gonna come in. Uh, and so that's my approach to goals, my approach to looking after myself. When I had my son, which is five years ago, I completely lost myself. I completely lost myself as a human, as an artist, and.

[00:43:39] Caylee: I'm being dramatic, but I think that most people go through that when you may become parents, you are forced to reevaluate your life. I mean, you can't ignore it, but for the most part, you're forced to just. Focus on one human. That's not you, . [00:44:00] Right. And I think in business we're forced to focus on other humans.

[00:44:03] Caylee: We're forced to focus on our members, our clients, our customers. Um, and, and because of that, my business and the business part of me, I had to kind of take a, take a breather. I had to realize that I couldn't work. all the time because I had to, you know, just do basic things like shower and breastfeed and, um, ridiculously time consuming things.

[00:44:32] Caylee: Uh, and so that was a very hard lesson for me to learn. But the, the effects of that have continued throughout these five years. I think I've been much more gentle on myself and. Worked a lot less than I would've liked to because of being at the wems of someone else. Um, and so that's a hard, [00:45:00] you looking for tips on how to do it.

[00:45:04] Kellee: I mean, I like your, your personal philosophy around it. It's been really one, I remember specifically, I don't know if it was last year or the year before, you showed how you had made a vision board and you used. , you know, images that were either cut out or digital and by the end of the year, your your year literally looked like your vision board and you were able to replace all those images with actually accomplishing that.

[00:45:32] Kellee: And you've got a very good point there. We can like vision it, we can imagine it, we can put that, the words and the emotions out into the universe as in, this is my dream, this is what I wanna accomplish. But you do have to. Action. You have to have something like, you know, my whole opinion on manifesting is you actually have to take the actions towards it happening.

[00:45:57] Kellee: Cuz like you said, if you wanna be strong, you actually have to [00:46:00] go and lift the weights to be strong. But still, there is something magical about putting the vision out into this world because it reminds you what you wanna embody. So I just love that and admired how you've done that year after year. I'm always like,

[00:46:16] Kellee: Wow. Okay. So I need to like actually plan this out a little bit better for myself and figure out what those small, tangible actions are, but also you've, you've turned to coaches to help you. And I think that's just something that I'm more curious about. I've hired coaches for business and I have had a therapist in the past because I do believe everyone probably needs therapy.

[00:46:40] Kellee: But I've never had a life coach, and I do. I think that there's something kind of magical about that, that helped you with some of the hurdles you were having as a, as a young mother. and that part of feeling lost, I did it three times. So I very much know about the feeling lost, which is almost why running my [00:47:00] own business feels so good to me because it's something that I have for myself.

[00:47:05] Kellee: And I love my kids and I've loved when they were young and raising them and all of that. Um, but you're right, it is like all encompassing. , like I just, I would stay up a little later at night than I should have just so that I could like exist as a human without a child next to me, . And my mom would always be like, why are you not going to bed sooner?

[00:47:25] Kellee: Like if she was visiting and I'm like, can I just have 20 minutes to be just Kelly? Oh, really? You who I understand that entire process of coming back to self and how a business in, in a lot of ways feeds the soul of your. your personal accomplishment and something that's not so immersive, as in as it it is immersive in a different way from raising a child. For sure. It's, yeah. It's 

[00:47:54] Caylee: nice because business. I mean, we don't need reasons to take time for [00:48:00] ourself, but having a business and continuing running their business is a very objective reason to be with yourself and all of that. And I think that as creative people, we also really need that time to connect with ourselves and to draw from ourself.

[00:48:14] Caylee: Um, my coach, I love her. I love her. She was meant to be for a short time, uh, and she ended up, she's still my coach now. When we. 20, a long time ago. I can't, I don't know. I'm not good with timelines, but, um, she was good. So she didn't start out as a business coach. She started out as a health coach because I'd been neglecting myself.

[00:48:42] Caylee: Um, and I call it li living out of alignment, right? When you. , you know what's true. You know what your values are, you know what you believe, but for some reason your actions are not, are not the same. And whether [00:49:00] your actions are not the same because you're tired cuz you haven't slept or because you're too busy because you're burnt out.

[00:49:05] Caylee: There's like a million reasons that don't, that are not always because you're a dick. , um, I needed someone to help me prioritize that, and so that's what she did and she helps, she helped, um, helps me talk through when I'm a bit too close to the thing, you know, like helps me step back a little bit. Um, and, and what's nice about writing your own business is. therapy and life coaching and all of that doesn't need to be about your business to help your business. 

[00:49:41] Kellee: Right. It's crazy, right? I mean, I think, well, we very much underestimate how important. , that kind of support is like, I didn't turn to getting support for my business or even myself for so many years, [00:50:00] and I know it, maybe it's a little cliche to say is, is my business grew when I got a coach?

[00:50:06] Kellee: But do you know what? There's so much truth in that. Like because you have something outside and when you pay for. , you're more invested in that. It's different than when you're just like getting, like I do like getting together with my business friends because they have amazing ideas too. But this is somebody you're paying for to just take care of you and help you improve yourself.

[00:50:30] Kellee: But I haven't tried a life coach yet, and I think that might need to be the next thing on my list because. I mean that whole living and alignment, and you explained it so perfectly. Alignment means you know what your values are, you know what the truth is, and you know what you need and still you're not doing it.

[00:50:47] Kellee: And that's me quite often. Like some things I, I'm getting better at, like making healthier meals and making sure that I'm. . Putting aside time to really be present for my husband and sometimes [00:51:00] my kids, cuz they don't, they're grown boys and they don't really have any interest in mom. But to nurture the relationship with my husband has been really important to me.

[00:51:08] Kellee: But I haven't been nurturing the relationship with myself. I haven't been exercising. I still. I'll eat healthy all day and then binge on the junk at night, , cause I'm tired, I don't sleep well. And I absolutely believe in the core of me how important meditation and spirituality is. And yet I put a wall up to it.

[00:51:30] Kellee: There's still a barrier. I will like start to do it. And then there's a part of me that pulls away again, and I've had friends ask like, what is it? And I'm like, well, it's not that it's boring, it's not that it's hard, it's that it's scary to get that connected with yourself. Oh, it is scary. So it is scary and it happens for me immediately when I start doing it.

[00:51:51] Kellee: I get answers that sometimes I don't even want. I'm like, damn it. I didn't wanna know that. That's what I do, . But you know, when you open up your heart and your spirit [00:52:00] completely, You get answers. And so here, this is just resolving this conversation is resolving in me that I, I can't make excuses to not meditate anymore when I know that when I do it, I get the answers that I need to live a better, healthier life.

[00:52:15] Kellee: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, uh, I am out of alignment is what I'm basically saying. I'm out of alignment. . Yeah. 

[00:52:23] Caylee: But it's, it's amazing. Um, yeah, the, the life courage. I interview, I always usually give you a free consultation, right? Um, and I always thought, this is nice, but not quite there. And then I met Mak and I was like, done. Like we are done. And so my life coach is soft. She's very soft. And I always thought I needed tough love. I thought I just needed to. Hear it like for the truth, I just need to be harder [00:53:00] on myself and that's how I'm gonna move forward.

[00:53:02] Caylee: Um, and she apparently I needed softness and gentleness and being told it's okay and all, and just being more. More Okay with all the unknowns and all of that. And so she's very good at that. And she's also very good. When I go to, and I'm having a tough time and I'm saying, I don't know why I'm having a tough time.

[00:53:23] Caylee: She asks me, are you meditating? How's your meditation practice? Have you been in your art journal lately? And they, they're always like, no, no, but I don't know why. And you know why? It's, it's crazy. You always know why if you just pause and think 

[00:53:39] Kellee: about it. Exactly. Exactly. That's so amazing. I love it. Well, if you had any advice for those who are thinking about or are already in business and they want to make their business something remarkable, that is the name of the podcast made Remarkable.

[00:53:58] Kellee: And I really do believe that we can do [00:54:00] remarkable things through our flaws, through our trials and tribulations and, and all the ups and downs of. We can still do remarkable things be remarkable just the way we are, but when we're doing, trying to make this business happen, what would you say is some, some advice that you wanna give the listeners right now?

[00:54:23] Caylee: I'm gonna steal your advice thing. I'm gonna do that from now on and just say like, the business specifics don't matter as much as the hot. Get really clear on the hots. So important. Uh, and the other thing that I would say is to be okay with the fail. Like the failures get really, really good at failing a million times.

[00:54:45] Caylee: And even, you know, even though I'm pretty. well versed in failure and I'll, I still, a failure comes and I'm like, oh, is this so uncomfortable? And then I have to remind myself, this is fine. This is good. We'll get [00:55:00] through this. It's okay. This is part of it. Um, and, and know that I think successful people are not, I read this somewhere.

[00:55:09] Caylee: This is not my, these are not my words, but successful people are not good at succeeding. They're just very good at failing. . 

[00:55:16] Kellee: Yes. And then getting back up and learning from it. Right. Anything, because failures teach us more than, more than succeeding ever will teach us. Oh yeah. , for sure. 

[00:55:30] Caylee: Yeah. Unfortunately.

[00:55:31] Caylee: Oh, 

[00:55:32] Kellee: well, where can everyone find you? Get messy, obviously. Get messy. Is it? 

[00:55:37] Caylee: Getmessyart.com and on Instagram, get messy art journal. Uh, I'm Caylee Grey. My website's cayleegrey.com 

[00:55:49] Kellee: I love following you get. Messy is amazing because I always find a lot of inspiration from your community, but. you know, you dropped the gems on your [00:56:00] Instagram account and I love it, . Thank you. So everyone, go and follow Kayleigh and get messy. If you're ready for, if you're, you're listening and you're in your creative part of your life, just learning and growing, it's a good place to go to, you know, get over perfectionism and just have fun. Do it. Doing it for the purpose of doing it, 

[00:56:21] Caylee: right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So good. 

[00:56:24] Kellee: . Thank you so much, Kaylee. I am so glad that we finally got to chat and catch up. Yeah. So, Alrighty. Thanks. Bye everybody. 

[00:56:35] Kellee: Okay. I hope you are as inspired as I am after that conversation. I just love Caylee to pieces and she inspires me and makes me just feel alive every time I talk to her. One of my biggest takeaways from today's episode, Is that maybe in order to live my life by design and not by default, I need to take some of the [00:57:00] clues to how to do it from Caylee first, who would've ever thought that a vision board could be so powerful. And the way that she uses her journaling and her self discovery and even spending time with a life coach has really helped her dive deep into who she is.

[00:57:21] Kellee: I just think she's remarkable. So I'm gonna take her idea, her advice, and I'm gonna make myself a vision board this week. It's not gonna be perfect, and I'm not looking for some pretty fancy thing. I'm looking for something powerful, something that really reminds me of who I am. And what I wanna accomplish this year and just how I wanna be, how I wanna thrive.

[00:57:44] Kellee: So if you're with me on this over the course of the next week, design yourself a vision board with that in mind, with knowing that. There can be a real transformation with that vision board and then share it. Share it on Instagram and tag me at [00:58:00] Kellee Wynne Studios. Or you can even tag our brand new Instagram account that is just for made remarkable.

[00:58:07] Kellee: That's at made remarkable, of course, or more than anything, you should tag Caylee. Just say thank you. Thank you for this podcast. Thank you for the inspiration and let her know that you appreciate it. Invite your friends. Invite the people you know around you that could use this extra boost of motivation and inspiration every week to come listen to the Made Remarkable podcast.

[00:58:32] Kellee: It would mean the world to me. I show up here twice a week for you because I wanna help you live. The life of your dreams by design, not by default. I want you to have big, audacious dreams and know that they are possible for you as well. So that's why I'm here and that's why I wanna spread the word about Made remarkable. Okay. I appreciate you so much. Thank you a million times. Thank you, love [00:59:00] you, and have a fabulous day. Bye.

If you'd like to listen to or learn more about the podcast visit https://www.maderemarkable.com/blog  for our show notes and links to the main players.