Everything You Need to Know About Messaging, Copywriting and Launches with Prerna of Content Bistro
[00:00:00] Made Remarkable Intro: Welcome back. And thanks for tuning in to the made remarkable podcast. Hosted by Kellee win. In today's episode, Kellee is talking with Perna Malick, the co-founder of content bistro, a thriving content strategy business. She runs alongside her husband. Content bistro specializes in assisting course creators. And creative entrepreneurs to boost their sales, using lifecycle marketing strategies. Perna shares her experience. On building genuine connections, understanding audience needs and creating transparent sales strategies. This episode. We'll also dive into the framework needed for optimizing course launches and discuss how to stand out in a saturated market. Check out the show notes and transcripts for more information about Prerna, exclusive promotional offers and any special links mentioned during the episode. Kellee loves connecting with listeners.
So don't be shy. Reach out on social media or just tap replying. Kellee's latest. Just newsletter.
Together, let's build a community that celebrates the remarkable. If you want to be notified every time a new episode hits the airwaves, just hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for joining us today. And always remember you are made remarkable destined to achieve the unimaginable. Now let's get to the good part. Introducing Kellee Wynn and Prerna Malik.
[00:01:15] Kellee Wynne: /Well, hello. Hello. I'm Kellee Wynn, artist, author, mentor, fiercely independent mother and wife, and the founder of a multiple six figure creative business. And I love my life, but I've been where you're at. I was slogging away at this art business thing for more than a decade. Once I finally connected with my true calling, unlock the magic of marketing and built a system that could scale, while I realize I can make an impact and make a substantial income, I'm finally running a business that I love and it makes all the.
Difference in the world. My biggest dream is to help you do the same. Let this podcast be the catalyst to your biggest success. You already have it in you because you are made remarkable.
/Well, hello, Prerna. I am so excited to have you on the podcast. What's really cool is that our paths just crossed on threads, but I've known Content Bistro for years. So having you on the podcast is such a delight. Welcome.
[00:02:19] Prerna Malik: Thank you so much for inviting Kellee. And yeah, you gotta love threads for making these, really cool connections happen because the other platforms, as much as we love them, they are getting noisier and way too crowded.
It's very easy to miss people and, you know, just kind of forget that you're connected with someone. So I'm just so glad that we connected and that, yeah, here we are.
[00:02:40] Kellee Wynne: Yeah, so that's how I found some of my most recent podcast guests, which has been exciting for me because I love hearing different voices.
You live in India, but you primarily serve English speaking entrepreneurs. Tell us a little bit about Content Bistro and what you do.
[00:02:58] Prerna Malik: Sure. So my husband and I, we run Content Bistro. We've been in business for the last 13 years, and we work with amazing, incredible clients all over the world, but mainly focused around North America, UK, Europe, and Canada.
We've had the pleasure and the privilege of working with some incredible industry leaders, including Amy Porterfield, Pat Flynn, Vanessa Lau, copy hackers, and over 600 clients over the years. We essentially work with course creators and creative entrepreneurs and help them increase sales both on the front end and the back end using lifecycle marketing strategies.
So we work with them on things like of course, their pre launch, their launch, their, evergreen funnels. But then we also work with them on behavior based sales sequences to help them increase sales from their audience at various points through the buyer journey. So that is what Content Bistro essentially focuses on, helping creators make more money from the products and programs that they have.
[00:03:57] Kellee Wynne: All right. So it's best to come work with you once you are established with a course. Or membership or coaching program, something already in place and you're ready to scale, that's where content Bistro's ready to help and find all the different angles in which you might be interacting with your customer.
[00:04:18] Prerna Malik: Yeah, sure. As long as you've got like an offer that, you know, you've. Launched once and now you want to kind of, really take that launch to the next level or we've also in the past worked with brands who are coming up with an all new product and all new, for instance, we worked with School of Traditional Skills and when they were just launching their membership and, and the brand itself.
So, we partnered with them and we came up with everything, including their brand voice, their, copy for the summit, their membership class copy. Everything, and of course, all of the emails to go with it as well. But we need, you know, it's ideal if you have an offer that you've either validated or it's new, but you know that, you know, it's got, it's got solid foundation below it.
We do work with you of course, on optimizing that offer because we do a lot of research before we even, come up with a single strategy or, write a word of copy. So, a lot of that is guided, you know, to help you optimize your offer as well. Even if it's validated, we help you kind of make it stronger based on what we learn about your audience, what they want about the, the industry or the niche that you're in, what is it that makes you, you, you know, what's your brand affinity?
So we do a lot of in depth research that guides, guides all of this.
[00:05:36] Kellee Wynne: And this is the part that I'm really passionate about, which is why I felt like this conversation was going to be really good for my audience to listen to. But we have another point of view that we want to bring in because we've been talking on threads and I see your posts and you see mine all about like this industry shift, change, burnout, whatever you want to call it, an awareness, our consumers are more savvy.
We have more choices than ever. How do we balance our Life and our passion for building our business. And I feel like you really have that, sensibility in the way that you work with people. And that's one thing that really drew me to you because right now I'm in a massive shift. My audience knows that they know that I'm bringing forth like a new voice of the thing that I've been doing for a while now, which I help similar customers, but maybe in a different part of their journey.
But this idea to be able to build something remarkable without it burning you out. And it is a huge shift that's happening. And in the industry, why like this whole online business, course creator business, digital product business, I feel like it's finally going out of its toddler phase. What do you think?
[00:06:49] Prerna Malik: 100 percent going out of its toddler phase for sure. I feel the shift is so good because our audiences are now more discerning than ever, especially if you're in the online marketing space or even in, what I like to call the hobby niches because I write a lot for, and I was telling you this right before we hit record, I write for, for artists, for, crafters, for, gardeners, astrologers.
So I write a lot, in those niches as well, homesteaders, for example. And I feel it's across niches. Our audiences are making decisions, not just based on, Oh, how shiny is something? Oh, sure. You know, you always have a percentage that's making that decision based on, you know, what, what the theme or how polished something is.
But now /our audiences, I feel for the most part are making decisions based on. What is it that you as a creator are bringing to the equation? A lot of our audiences, especially those in the marketing niche, have, gone through what I like to call entrepreneurial trauma over the last, so many years where they've invested thousands of dollars, and not gotten what they signed up for, even after doing due diligence, because I know someone's going to come to me and say, well, they should have checked, you know.
And I speak to this from personal experience, like way back in the day. I remember Mike and I, we signed up for this really popular, business program, that came highly recommended by our friends and everyone else. And at that time, this is like, we started in 2011, I think this was 2013. This was like probably the most expensive program we'd invested in, which was like, which was 2, 000.
And when we signed up, we realized that this was all very surface level stuff that we already knew. Basic. Exactly. You know, but it had been positioned and packaged to be like, as if it's going to just take your business to the next level. And we did due diligence. We checked with friends who'd taken the program.
We read the sales page multiple times. Decision, right? Now, now you're in this program. Well, why don't you ask for a refund? Well, the thing is, once you're in communities like these, where everyone else is raving about the program, you start to question like, Hey, is it just me? Who's feeling that way? It's like almost this level of, I hesitate to use the term, but I feel like because I brought up the entrepreneurial trauma angle, it's almost like, as if you're being gaslit, like you're like, am I the only one who thinks this isn't what it's supposed to be?
And you don't want to badmouth it because for fear of legal backlash and also, you know, because well, this creator is, way bigger than you and then you start to kind of second guess yourself. So at the end of the day, you chalk it up to a business lesson, you chalk it up to earning your stripes.
But the fact of the matter is, it does leave a scar somewhere. And now, after being, you know, I feel for most of us, when we see our audiences take their time to make a decision, it's because when you are repeatedly hurt like this, with by the investments you make, full of excitement, full of energy, and only to kind of be disappointed.
You start to take your time to make a decision. You start to let your past, you start to let your trauma inform those decisions, right? And I feel that's a good thing, because that means as creators, we need to step up. And we need to show our audiences that we really care. Which is why, Kellee.
As a sales strategist and a copywriter, I personally go through a client's program to kind of make sure that I'm getting the experience that I'm going to be talking about on the sales page.
Oh, I will go through your Membership, I will go through your program and I will come back to you and let, you know, if certain things aren't adding up or if certain things are going to impact the experience, or if we need to add something or remove something to support whatever it is that I will be putting or sharing on the sales page,
[00:10:45] Kellee Wynne: right?
There's a level of integrity there to make sure that what we're offering is what we're delivering.
[00:10:51] Prerna Malik: There has to be, right? I mean, it has to kind of align this. This has gone on for way too long where people have said one thing and delivered another thing and it's not like people aren't doing it right.
There are creators who are doing it right and who are being thoughtful and intentional and whether by having conversations like you are having right now or when they hire us, they, They let us know that, hey, we're open and willing to make the changes that you would come to us with, because everything is being guided by the research that we do when we speak to their, like, I literally get on calls with their students and their clients to kind of understand, and with people who've not bought, and go comb through survey data, like my team and I, we spend hours on this, hours, days, you know, just to kind of collect all this information, because We need to be more intentional about the words we write because these words matter.
It's no longer about, just persuasion and psychology and conversion. Yes, those are great. And you will see conversions. You can use psychology, but you also need to be more intentional about everything that you're putting in the copy. That's it. Promoting your offer
[00:12:04] Kellee Wynne: and how you serve your people when they are now invested in the program.
1 thing that 1 of the things that I'm noticing to how things are going right now is. There is a glut of options. I mean, in 2012 or 2016, it was like, you can just put an offer out and people will buy it because there weren't as many choices. Now we have so many choices that Yes, the shiny, the biggest, the names, you know, like we know there's some big celebrity now, who would have ever thought there's celebrity entrepreneurs.
And so we think they're going to have the best information and people are willing to invest thousands of dollars into programs that have thousands of people in them. And, and yes, if you're starting out, some of that info can be good, but I'm seeing a space now where more niche, more hands on, more Curated offers more, I don't know, personalized people want to feel real humans there.
No one wants to sign up for a program or a course and then not ever see the person who created it.
[00:13:12] Prerna Malik: You nailed it. 100%. This is definitely the shift that we are seeing as well where people want to connect with the creator. We just worked with a client on a launch recently and I'm doing their second launch that's going to happen in January as well.
And one of the things that. Came out in the research that we did and then that we made a point to integrate into the program was making sure that the creator was a part of not just, you know, oh, I'm going to do the webinar, but also, recording personal video messages. Or, including personal stories and just kind of being a part, she's a, you know, she has a pretty big brand.
She's got, you know, a bestselling books and all of that, but her audience really wanted to connect with her. And here's the thing. I know everyone wants better boundaries, everyone, you know, you obviously want to build a business that's not going to burn you out. So as a creator, you do want those, you know, those boundaries, those guardrails in place.
But at the same time, you do need to realize that if you are asking your audience to invest a few thousand dollars into your program, there has to be a level of service that you are willing to offer.
[00:14:25] Kellee Wynne: Right. And for those who are creating lower ticket memberships, maybe evergreen programs, there's still a level of.
uniqueness you need to bring to the table. You know, like everything feels like such a cookie cutter out there right now. And one of the things that I'm really passionate about in my programs is to help you design something that's out of the box. Think differently in your marketing and your product offers.
We have to start in re imagining how we're interacting with our people.
[00:14:56] Prerna Malik: Absolutely. Absolutely. I say this often as a copywriter, right? Like one of the hills that I'm going to, you know, I'm willing to die on is that templates have no place in my copy kitchen. I have to be strong. So I have to use food.
Templates have no place in my copy kitchen. Why? Because templates have their place, you know, maybe for design. I love Canva templates. , I'm signed up to different memberships for them. Templates have their place in your SOPs, in your email responses. But when you're writing copy, just like with your offer, you want to, especially now more than ever with the glut of AI generated copy, You want your copy to carry your voice.
You want your copy to reflect your values, your story. And, this is why I, I have a program where I teach the same approach to sales strategy and copy that I use for clients called Ready to Sell. There is not a single template in there. All we have is what I call recipes.
So you can take those steps. There are ingredients and there are steps. You can take those steps. You can mix and match them. You can, double the quantity. You know, you could do all of that. It make them your own. I'm so glad you talked about this because just like we're talking about, you know, standing out with the level of service you're offering, this is also an opportunity for you to shine with the level of you and the uniqueness that you're bringing to both your offer and to the words you use.
[00:16:25] Kellee Wynne: What do you think is happening right now with Well, I mean, I can speak right off the top of my head, but we're struggling seeing a decrease in sales for a lot of people this year. Some people are having a good year. But a lot of people are like, okay, what's happening? I just followed the same formula of a launch.
I did the live four part, whatever, or I hosted a big summit. And then on the other back end of it, I didn't get the numbers that I'm used to seeing. I'm, I'm going to guess one thing is selling here in the, in the fall, right around election season is really challenging because people are holding their breath.
Will there be an America in another week or so, right? Um, but on the other side of that, it's also like Everyone's wised up to the launch formula, basically, and what was working doesn't feel like it's working much anymore. We need to be reinvented. But one thing that you've talked touched on over and over again is.
Is the copyright, are we communicating with the right person and in the end, did we give them such an amazing experience that our own customers are our sales people because they talk about the experience they had with us.
[00:17:45] Prerna Malik: So there are actually, you know, two things that are happening here and I agree, you know, I've heard stories of launches not doing as well as they should, you know, or something like you said, someone falling.
Oh, I followed this, this blueprint or this launch system and that I've. Use before and it's not working. So here's what's happening there. And this is something I just, in fact, I've been like kind of talking about it with our clients, but I just posted about on over on LinkedIn is that your strategy is not just a plan.
Your strategy needs to be, you know, it needs to take so many things into account. It needs to take your, of course, your audience, their behavior, their patterns, their mindset, your mindset, your season of life. Use all of that. To create a sales strategy for your offer. Now that this could look very different from a three step launch blueprint, you know, or, something that's worked in the past, the summit or the challenges or the video sales letter or whatever, it could be.
A whole mix of things you need to like really spend some time and which is why the strategy side of when we work with clients takes the longest because
we really need to sit down and think about what's going to work with this audience. Is it going to be a webinar or if if not. Then what is it going to be a challenge.
If not, then what and why. Right. So you need to have approached this with a lot of curiosity and almost with the mind of a scientist, because otherwise you're just, you know, you're just flinging spaghetti at a very messy wall. With just like, okay, let's see if this sticks. Right. Do that. So that's. Part one is that what you may have been thinking of as strategy is was really just someone else's plan that was working well until it stopped working.
So now you kind of, you know, go back and I
[00:19:41] Kellee Wynne: get that I get. You know, may I play devil's advocate as well? Sometimes the reason things aren't working anymore is because our audience has shifted so much, and we definitely need to be paying attention. Each person develops their own unique way of making an offer.
And I've been working custom design of these things, and I still find them falling flat. Some of the things I'm wondering are, you know, We've been taught, and like I said, we're just coming out of toddler phase of this whole creator industry, right? We've been taught to give them a lot for free, give them a lot of value, and then eventually they're gonna want to purchase from you.
But we have more choices than ever, and people are out there taking everything free and probably filling up on chips and salsa before they ever get to the meal. I am actually noticing more and more Launches, including more of lower ticket paid events instead of everything always being for free. Are you noticing that same thing?
And do you think that's working?
[00:20:43] Prerna Malik: I'm noticing that but in certain niches in our in marketing heavy niches. Yes, that is happening. That said, what we've actually tested out over the last two years and seen a lot of success is what I'm terming zero funnel sales. I just published a blog post over on our blog about this, but, basically what I call zero funnel sales is where you don't really have a funnel.
You're just selling just the way, businesses have always sold. You go to a retail store, they don't have a funnel really for you, right? You go, you see what you want, you buy it and you come out. Similarly, you as a business, someone comes to your website or someone is on your social media.
What's stopping you from selling there? I mean, you're right, we've been taught that give for free, give for free, give for free, and then sell. But the point is, by the time it sells, Opportunity comes, you know, our audience is already like, well, I've got enough of the free stuff right now. I think I'm just going to play with this.
So zero funnel sales kind of tackles that problem. So whether it's one of the best ways we've been able to do that for our clients in the past has been nurtured for sales newsletters. Um, again, happy to share the link. It's I've got like a. Very in depth post over on the Content Bistro blog for it. But Nurtured for Sales newsletters has been working really well because you are nurturing your audience, but you're also selling to them.
Like literally every email is selling to them. Okay. While they're in connection with them. Right. But those are great strategies. That's it. You know, those are great strategies to use when you have an offer that's available evergreen, when you have multiple, or when you have multiple offers. So in one case, for example.
We wrote a series of newsletters for, I think, six months for a client segment that was only comprised of their students, their past students, because they had other offers to share with them that would make logical sense, right? And in another case, we wrote behavior based emails for a skincare membership because that would make sense.
Kick in once their students had completed a certain level in the membership and then, you know, help them move on to the next level. So sometimes this kind of works when you have multiple offers. And when you have offers that are available, you're around to answer your question about live launches.
What's working? Most recently, what we've seen has still been a webinar, but not your traditional webinar. You know, it's more, it's more thoughtful. I know I'm saying intentional in the sense, like, it's got more meat to it. Rather than just, you know, here are the mistakes you're making, here's my four step framework and here's how you can continue your journey with me.
So, webinars are still working, it's just that people need more to be able to trust you, especially if you're targeting a cold audience with ads. So, we've had, I think, three or five of our clients, I would say it's five of our clients right now, like, in the last, few months who've launched with webinars, pre webinars that have worked.
So, for one of them, I even wrote the webinar script, so I'm, like, speaking from experience where I say, like, you know, we worked hard to make sure, because we found that what was happening with this particular client, that people were dropping off. In like almost the first 5 percent of the webinar.
Right. So we were losing them as soon as like they would realize like, okay, yeah, this is going to be a sales pitch. And this is this is for a marketing savvy audience. So one needs to make sure that your webinar is like literally bringing the heat and We'll have weight. So,
[00:24:31] Kellee Wynne: three,
[00:24:31] Prerna Malik: well, considering
[00:24:31] Kellee Wynne: that a lot of my audience are creators, as in the artists, the makers, the bakers, like you said, the homemakers, the homesteaders.
Yeah. So a webinar maybe a a and it gets a little challenging because what do you put behind a paywall and what do you teach? And I'm trying to encourage people to understand that we can make our how tos public. It's the access to the teacher that they get when they come into a program. But, you know, we've done like the first parts of the lesson.
We've done a challenge. We've done some of these interactive community things. And even after spending money and getting thousands of people, In the programs in the free offers, the conversion rates are still falling flat. We're going to try some things next year with paid events rather than just freebie seeking.
Right? Because you have people who are running businesses who want to learn about how they run a business. They're willing to go to a webinar, three part video series or whatever, because they're going to get value out of it. A lot of people who are just looking for, it's like a B2C, you know, the B2C customers, they're still struggling quite a bit and finding like the, the new balance between what was happening before and what's working now.
[00:25:53] Prerna Malik: Funnily enough, you know, like I said, I write a lot for the, for the B2C segment as well. So we've seen people still respond well. To pretty much all of the free content, like, including things like the summit, like, I know, you know, um, the brand that I mentioned school for traditional skills, they do a huge summit every year, bring in a lot of great homesteading vendors.
And, it's free and they, Have great lessons and then they invite people to join their membership either on a quarterly, monthly, or like a lifetime basis still working well for them. The webinar is still working well for like clients who are astrologers or even food bloggers and, for food bloggers, in fact, or food photographers for that matter.
What I am seeing though, is one needs to be upfront about the fact that this is step one, you will be invited to join the webinar. My program, so you're kind of priming them and preparing them that this is just step 1. It's a preview. Think of it as a preview. This is not the whole thing. So that level of transparency is working out really well, even on the opt in page and the show up emails.
You know, we're like, letting them know that that, you know, This is coming.
[00:27:05] Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
[00:27:06] Prerna Malik: So by the time you're actually
[00:27:08] Kellee Wynne: part of a sales system right now, no, no bait and switch.
[00:27:12] Prerna Malik: Exactly. Exactly. So just kind of being really upfront and transparent with them again, going back to the fact that we want to serve our audience and we want to let them know that, hey, this is going to help you, but only to a point, you will be invited to join my program.
And of course, as always, the choice is yours. So that's still been working. I honestly, in all transparency, Kellee have in the last year, and I mean, like this year itself, I've worked on 33 different client projects. We've not done a paid, opt in.
[00:27:42] Kellee Wynne: You haven't done a paid opt in?
[00:27:45] Prerna Malik: No. Okay. So, yeah.
So it's, yeah, that's what I'm saying. So it's, Because, and we've seen, you know, like clients have had good, solid launches. But again, I don't know, like say with your clients, because I don't know what their audiences have said and which is why I'm a huge fan of serving our non buyers, finding, getting on calls with them and finding out like what's holding you back.
You know, very often we find like messaging is not clear. For instance, with one particular client, research showed that the People who hadn't bought were not clear about the call timings. They weren't people don't want to ask these questions, right? Like, they don't even if you keep telling them like, hey, tap reply, ask us people who want to do that.
They just want to know. Overwhelming majority said that I did not join because I would not clear about the life call timings and I was afraid I would make them. I was like, that is such a simple problem to fix.
[00:28:41] Kellee Wynne: Simple problem to fix. so copy our messaging, the way that we communicate and how we connect with our customer makes all the difference in the world.
And I noticed this cause I had one launch this year, which by most people's standards would say it was pretty good. It was a six figure launch. But that being said, I didn't have a conversion rate that I expected off of my warm email list. I got more people to come to my launch event through cold traffic through ads.
And so I sat there and of course I have a launch specialist that works with me and we looked at who was on that list versus who we were targeting and the messages that I've been using. And it did come down to a lack of clarity of Who I was helping and how I was serving them. So when I say creative business owners, I had a lot of people who came in as like, okay, so she's going to teach me how to sell my products, my art, my art, my paintings, my prints, my whatever.
And I'm over here saying, no, I help with online courses, memberships, programs like that. But I wasn't clear. Because I'm part of me was probably unclear myself, but when I got super clear, it was like a switch. And so everyone who was on my list was curious. They were maybe had migrated over, had followed me from my art course making years.
And so that really made a huge difference. And we did those non buyer surveys, which means for everyone who's kind of curious about this, when you've made an offer. And you're done with the offer, whether it went well, or it didn't went, went very well, it's time to ask your customers. Why did you choose to buy?
Or why did you choose not to buy? What was it that was important to you? How did it connect with you? And so we've started doing that. The brilliance of that means that you now have language to use in your copy in the future and to make sure that. What you're saying here in socials or in your newsletter matches what the offer is.
And so this has been a big aha for me. And it's something that I've been teaching, but it's like I'm getting more clarity on how to teach that to my clients that are in my programs. The connection has to be clear, and it's the most painful thing for somebody in business to have to do to go back to your niche.
But if you don't go back to the niche and the ideal customer and do that profile, and you have to do it at least, I think, every six months to a year minimum.
[00:31:22] Prerna Malik: Absolutely. 100 percent recommend.
[00:31:25] Kellee Wynne: Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of them are like, I'm wait, I've done this so many times, but I do it differently. And we get to a point of being able to connect on a deeper level.
And that's where that integrity, that transparency, that uniqueness, that point of view that only you have will connect with. The right person and draw them. Then they will, it will feel magnetic when you get that part. Right. And I think that magnetics magnetism might be missing.
[00:31:55] Prerna Malik: I completely agree. I completely agree.
Something that I tell clients and anyone who comes to us for, and they're relaunching a course, right? Is that you need to let the 3Ds help you make the decision. So that is your data, your details and depth. So data is, of course, you know, the surveys, the numbers and all of that, details is What you get about your, you know, the, the offer has that evolved, for instance, in your case, like you just mentioned, like you kind of shifted, you wanted that, if that's not clear, you're going to lose people.
Right. And then of course, you've got depth. Depth is all about, you know, what's changing in your industry. How can you be a part of that? So how can you, has something changed with, With the core values of your business, how can those be better reflected?
[00:32:43] Kellee Wynne: How can you just stand out and take a different point of view so that people actually can hear what you say?
Cause there's so much noise and then we just repeat everything everybody else is saying.
[00:32:54] Prerna Malik: Absolutely. So you want to let data details in depth guide your decisions because that way is then you'll make sure that you're. Absolutely aligned with your audience, you're aligned with your offer, your offer is optimized and then the copy and the messaging that you have can do the job that they're meant to do because copy is not a cure all like no matter what anyone tells you, copy cannot fix.
Uh, flimsy offer. Copy will not be able to sell something that is not suited for a particular audience. Copy is not a cure all. Copy is one piece of the whole puzzle, right? But, and for it to do its job well, we need to have the foundation. In place, right?
[00:33:36] Kellee Wynne: Exactly. So I wanted to switch just a little bit towards social media and what people don't understand is it's all connected.
Our copy is also what we write in our posts. It's the copy is thing that we say when we show up on a video. It's all comes down to our messaging. So whatever word you want to use, but our copy is our connection right to the person and the customer on the other side. But I think at this point, it feels like we're shouting into the void of social media.
What's going on there? And how are we to like, find new way forward? I mean. Yeah, I'm going to agree with you right off the bat. We're going to say you got to have a personality and stand out. But it's getting so noisy there. What would you say, you know, to everyone who's like ready to throw in the towel?
They're so exhausted from it. What's the next step? Where do we go next?
[00:34:31] Prerna Malik: That is such a good question and a such a good discussion to have and as someone who's been on social media I was just telling you know, right before we hit record like I was in Twitter I think 20 2000 2008 is when I started blogging. I think 2009 is when I got on Twitter probably So I've been on social media for Wow for as long as I could remember It probably even had a myspace account at some point.
Yeah so So yeah, and I love social. I Enjoy being on social a lot and I completely agree with you. It's getting noisier attention spans are getting shorter It's becoming harder for you to stand out. I'll be honest. It is hard to to stand out to get noticed and I've found that the best way to probably enjoy being on social and still getting, you know, your community engaged with you is to, is to make social a part of your flywheel, you know, so it's not just like, oh, social, you post on social, you send people to your website, and then, you know, they'll convert and things like that.
You want it to be a part of like the complete content flywheel. So you've got your blog, you've got your email list, you've got, Maybe one, two social media platforms. How can you kind of keep people circulating between those? So you, you have, you will always have a percentage of your audience that will, from your email, click through to your social, engage with your content there.
They'll probably, you know, when they start engaging, it just kind of, Builds up. That's what I've seen has been working well for, for us as a, as a brand and also for clients, which is, and I completely agree. Social is copy. That's why I like in, in ready to sell. I, it's not just your opt in pages and sales pages and your emails.
We have your blog content because that is copy, right? You have, it's called, I call it collateral conversion content because it's, you know, you need all of these things to sell. We have social because that's part of copy. So you need to learn a, of course, how to write social posts that would stand out and that that kind of reflect your voice and all of the things that you said.
But more importantly, you need to kind of Integrate social into the whole picture. So maybe in your emails, start linking to a reel that you post it. Ask people to share over there instead of just having reply, right? Maybe link to a LinkedIn post. On a blog post that you've talked about, just send out a LinkedIn post as an email, right?
Like just link to that post and say, Hey, I would love to hear what you think and link to that post. So get, make it a part of your content flywheel instead of making it a standalone platform from which you're going to send people to. Your website, just kind of have them connect with you like that, because right now, as far as I can see, and I'm not a social media strategist, I started as one, but I'm not one right now, I would say the algorithm loves it when people engage with your content.
So,
[00:37:45] Kellee Wynne: well, I think that we're all sick of that nasty algorithm, no matter how it changes every other week. And I am working really hard right now to help people move past this, frustration with social media and start thinking about things differently. A flywheel, by the way, is something that's actually a new term for me, because I've been using something in my program called the Prism Marketing System, and it's basically a flywheel.
And for most people, probably in my audience is like, what is she talking about? What's a flywheel? Basically, it's a system we put in process of Our primary content is what I say is long form content. Everybody really needs to pick 1 audio visual words, whatever, pick a long form content. You have your social media.
You can break parts of that down on the social media. You send them to your newsletter. You're going to keep moving people through. The different places that you are online, but I believe in simplicity. So if you just pick three things, primary content, one social media platform and your newsletter and keep them moving through it, that's actually a flywheel.
So now that term flywheel, keeping people deep, more deeply connected with you through the different places that you show up online. That being said, is that. There's a lot of my followers and a lot of my clients that are still new at building social media, so they don't have the tens of thousands of followers yet.
And so cutting through all of that feels nearly impossible to them. And I had a spark of a moment here where I realized what did we used to do and what are we doing actually now on threads because threads is just barely over a year old. It still doesn't have ads. It does, you know, like mine is like the algorithm on it knows exactly what I like to see.
Right now it's working. It does not know what I like on Instagram. I don't know, since the two companies are owned by the same person, I don't know why that is, but it's social. We're missing the part of the word social. Exactly! Exactly, you can't just post something and take off. Yeah, you know how you want to connect with other people.
It's time to connect. That means you need to spend time finding your right people and talking to them. If if you're not leaving comments, do you think other people are going to want to leave comments?
[00:40:16] Prerna Malik: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and like I said, you know, there's nothing stopping you from selling on social media.
Like, I'm all for zero funds sales, but at the same time, it's social media. It's not sales media. It's not paid media. Right? And they'll be so
[00:40:34] Kellee Wynne: much lately. So it's getting really redundant.
[00:40:38] Prerna Malik: Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think it's like you need to start kind of really having conversations just like you and I had.
Right. Right. Use my post. You commented. You're like, yes. And then, you know, it led from, we had a conversation that brought us here. Right. So
[00:40:56] Kellee Wynne: it wasn't school. Old school is new again. Right. Exactly. Networking and creating relationships. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Going back to basics. Back to basics, and that's really what the big Aha, we've we've created this society that wants tens of thousands of followers.
We're counting our likes We're counting our comments where we're counting vanity metrics that don't actually lead to dollars There are people with million people On their accounts still making no money. And there are people with 400 followers and there are millionaires. So we have to break this illusion that more followers, more comments, more likes is actually converting people into anything at all.
What's important are the relationships we're building and so that's where I'm coming into this big aha moment where I, I honestly had to disconnect. I actually deleted social media off my phone and now it's a tool that I use that I purposefully engage and I'm not just scrolling anymore. So that's gives me the opportunity to be able to connect like real human beings.
And so when it comes down to both, we have to know who we're talking to, and that's what you've been talking about. This message, the copy, the language we use, how we're connecting with them, but the connection is the part that we're forgetting. And, and the more that I know, the more that I have connection with real people and build real relationships, the happier I feel to actually show up and do my work.
[00:42:35] Prerna Malik: I completely agree. One of the things, and I probably should get a t shirt with, you know, that written on it. Something that I say repeatedly is connections lead to conversions. So your. Connections are what would lead to conversions. That said, you cannot go into a conversation just thinking like, Oh, I need to make a sale.
I need to make so that I cannot have that sense of desperation around it. You need to have a sense of calm around the connection you're creating. Because when. Again, more so now than ever in a world where people are finding it harder to trust, whether that content has been generated by a bot, whether the person that they're seeing is real or not, the conversations you're having, the connection you're making, that is what is going to lead to the conversion and not, you know, like, oh, the quantity of Of the connections you have, whether you are, like you said, whether you have like hundreds of thousands of followers, that quantity is not important.
You could have a 300 person email list and be deeply connected with each one of them over there so much so that they would be talking about you to their friends sitting in their living room. That is the quality of connection that you want. So, I mean, give me that over quantity any day.
[00:43:57] Kellee Wynne: Any day that is a perfect summation of everything that we've been talking about today.
Deep connection and actually serving. Thinking of it as a serving mindset rather than a taking mindset, and that will change everything about how you show up and the relationships that you have online. And I, I do believe that when you come from that point of view, your business will grow. Inevitably it's meant to grow.
[00:44:26] Prerna Malik: Absolutely. Like we've been around 13 years, so we've seen all kinds of, you know, like economic conditions. We've revealed, you know, he and I, we lived through the pandemic. So, we know what it's like to run a business at different seasons and different kinds of climates and all of this, and is this a change?
Yes. Is it a good change? I believe so. I believe that our audiences are being more discerning is a good change. It encourages us as creators to, you know, like, just sit up and take notice and just lead in and have more intentional, thoughtful conversations with our teams, with ourselves, with our audiences about how can we better our community.
Start to show up so we can serve better. And yes, at the end of the day, sell better. We're running businesses. Let's be honest. We want to sell, but that does not mean that what worked say three years ago, two years ago, five years ago is still going to work. If that means we need to change. Well, let's change.
That's what evolving is all about.
[00:45:31] Kellee Wynne: Right. The tactics are only tactics, but the tried and true is the connection, like you've been saying. Absolutely.
[00:45:38] Prerna Malik: Absolutely.
[00:45:38] Kellee Wynne: Well, Prerna, let's talk about how people connect with you. Obviously, I love that we can connect on threads. You're also on LinkedIn. And I'm sure people can find you on Instagram as well for Content Bistro, which is a very clever name, especially the way you put all of your things together.
I love it.
[00:45:59] Prerna Malik: Well, thank you so much. Yes, of course. Threads is where you'll find my unfiltered views on entrepreneurship, on sales, on copy and all of that. And then of course, if you're more interested in bite sized servings, Instagram is great. We are at content be strong, both places, LinkedIn. I'm Prerna Malik.
But if you would love to get our emails, I would love to see you over and and meet you in your inbox. So head over to contentbistro. com forward slash newsletter.
[00:46:28] Kellee Wynne: /Okay, I will make sure that that goes in our links and bio everything where people can find you because I have a feeling. That your newsletter is pretty helpful, and it would be worth having in your inbox every week to get these kinds of, really thoughtful advice on copywriting and connecting the way that you talk.
Connections lead to conversions.
[00:46:52] Prerna Malik: They do.
[00:46:53] Kellee Wynne: They do. Thank you so much for joining me today. And I can't wait to share this with my audience. They're going to love it.
[00:47:00] Prerna Malik: Thank you so much for inviting me, Kellee.
If you'd like to listen to or learn more about the podcast visit https://www.maderemarkable.com/blog for our show notes and links to the main players.